New Total Chaos Lower Ball Joint Conversion

So the “they can’t fail” claim is false then,(your not the only one to make that claim, it’s being thrown around on Facebook to) and that very claim will lead to what you described with people running them until they come apart without checking them just as they do with ball joints because the internet told them if you buy an oem joint from Toyota it’s guaranteed xxx,000 miles.

like I said it looks like a well made product, and definitely serves a purpose, I just think people need to be aware it is not a “set it and forget it” end all to the Toyota lbj problem like is being touted all over social media.

 

My 33” tires don’t rub.

 

Hey Mike (op) is the uniball the same as in your stock length UCA? On big trips I carry a spare uniball for my TC UCA and I also have to carry a left and right OE LBJ assembly. The less spare parts I have to pack the better. Good looking set-up man, thanks and looking forward to that LCA development.

 

How many LBJ bolts have you seen fail? My biggest issue when wheeling isn't the LBJ cup and socket but the bolts shearing. What is TC providing for bolts?

Also, in the 35K miles of testing how many miles of that is on hard trails?

 

A lot of us already know what the pros and cons are of these LBJs. If not, the information is out there.
Don’t buy it if you don’t want to. I’m glad there are companies like TC that still support a 25 year old truck to push out a new product.

 

They cant fail in the way that I see a lot of ball joints fail (shearing off the tapered pin) because there isn't a pin to shear, it's held together with a 5/8" through bolt. If you are referring to them failing by the ball coming out of the race (I would be shocked), then that has nothing to do with Toyota's "shitty design". With the uniball conversion there really is no top or bottom like their is on a ball joint. The uniball doesn't care which way its oriented. If the load was pushing on the uniball like on the 05+ Tacoma's the uniball wouldn't know the difference; unless you can explain to me why the uniball is just as likely to fail as a ball joint.

I have seen the bolts fail, but its usially from 1. coming loose and then shearing off or 2. people not using the dowel pins that help take the shear load off the ball joint bolts. If you notice, the uniball conversion has the pins machined into the part, and you'll notice that center of the uniball conversion is raised and registers itself into the bottom of steering knuckle which takes side load shear load off of the bolts and transfers it to the steering knuckle.
Of those miles, a lot are HARD offroad miles. Anyone on here who knows me knows im not easy on my truck.

Yes its the same 1"uniball that TC uses on its arms.

 

Here is the load rating page. look at the numbers for a 1" spherical bearing
https://www.fkrodends.com/products/spherical-bearings/wide-series/wssx-t/

 

Just for reference here are the joints for that model disassembled.

 

I have seen numerous of these ball joints pull the ball out of socket and it has EVERYTHING to do with Toyotas shitty design. With this design the weight of the vehicle is literally trying to pull the ball out of socket constantly. This is the sole reason lbj failures are so prevalent on this generation of Toyotas and why the problem basically disappeared in 05 when they put the ball joint under compression like every other truck on the road.

I just don’t see how a uniball, which is still just a ball in a socket, is going to be any different.

 

Good to know that's you've put some hard miles on them. In my experience the bolts are a larger issue. I upgraded to 10.9s and stopped shearing them completely. TC just lists "hardware" as parts but there's no strength specs for the bolts they supply. There's some testing being done right now on various bolts for the 3rd Gen 4Runner which will transfer directly to the 1st Gen Taco as soon as it is completed. It's the first real test of pre-load and ultimate breaking strength for these bolts ever done. More info here:

 

Mine don't either but I beat the crap out of my firewall . Are you saying the new ones will move the tire forward? Do you have a eta on when they maybe coming to market? If so I'll hold of on getting the solos.

 

Yes, I agree with you 100% that when the ball joints pull out of the socket it is because of Toyota’s shitty design. What I am saying is with a uniball it’s different because it’s not a 1 piece taper and ball in a plastic socket trying to pull out of a socket. If you are arguing that the uniball has the same chance of failing as the ball joint because Toyotas design loads the uniball in a shitty way then you are questioning any uniball used in a horizontal fashion correct? Did you look at the load rating of the FK uniball? I don’t think that this conversion is for everyone and clearly it is not for you and that is totally fine, no one has a gun to anyone else’ head forcing them to buy it. I never said it was completely indestructible, and I never said it will outlast a factory ball joints in terms of miles. All I’m saying is that it’s much stronger and will not fail in the same way a ball joint does.

The bottom line is that I have this truck, and after having my son 3 years ago I decided that it was about time someone made a fix for as you say “.Toyota’s shitty design” because I wasn’t about to have a ball joint failure with my son in the car. So after two years of hard work and overcoming multiple hurdles, Total Chaos is now able to offer a solution to a very common problem with a very popular Toyota platform. If you don’t think it’s very good, I respect that and you’re entitled to your opinion, but if this part keeps even one taco or 4-runner from rolling due to ball joint failure then in my eyes it a success.

 

Yes I’ve read that article so far and I am interested in part three. The bolts we supply get the most possible thread engagement and they are 10.9 flange heads.

 

I do not have stock length lowers on my truck, And I cannot talk about what we have in process right now, but one thing I have found over the years is tire revving is very dependent also upon wheel and tire choice. I didn’t have to beat my fender well at all, but I also use stock wheels and no wheel spacer with a 33x10.5 R15.

 

Like I said I just don’t see how the uniball in that particular orientation with that particular load characteristic is going to not be susceptible to the same outcome as the balljoint. I know having the unibal horizontal in general does not mean it will fail, as has been proven with all the upper control arms, etc. that use them in this orientation, and I’m not saying it won’t possibly last longer than a balljoint. I just don’t think there’s enough data out there to say it’s guaranteed to not ever fail like the ball joints. Like I said before it looks like a quality part and there is a market for it, but as you stated yourself there are different noise and wear characteristics for uniballs vs ball joints and I just feel that the general non-mechanical population needs to be aware of that before dropping the $1000 on them for their daily driver. I’ll leave it at that now, and I hope they do well for you and maybe they’ll prove me wrong, and yes it’s always great to see new products and solutions to issues.

 

You benefit from all the advantages a uniball has vs. a standard ball joint. Nuff said. If you still think there is no difference, ok. LOL

 

But do you see how the uniball doesn’t know or care what orientation it’s in? Weather it’s being pulled on or pushed on (imagine a uniball in both the photos) it doesn’t know the difference. There could be an argument that the snap ring is on the “wrong side” but there is a reason it is where it is too. And in regards to the cost I understand it’s expensive for sure but it’s not cheap to produce also add up the cost of breaking a lower ball joint and the parts that will need to be replaced once you break a ball joint if it’s not totaled. Axle, inner and outer tire rod, lower control arm, Steering knuckle etc etc

 

I don’t think your understanding what I’m getting at as far as saying it has the same possibility of failing. Disregard the pin, or bolt, The main part of the unibal and the ball joint are both just a ball in a socket. As you know on these trucks, the weight of the vehicle is hanging off of the ball so it is constantly trying to pull the ball out of the socket. New they’re both tight in the socket, as they wear clearances open up between the ball and the socket. If not replaced when this starts to occur there is the potential for the wear to get to the point that the ball is pulled right out of the socket. There is nothing about a unibal that I’ve seen that says that can’t happen on one of them. Maybe I’m missing something, But I don’t see it.

 

The only real benefit is range of motion.

 

I understand that you are saying the ball can the wear out the liner on either a ball joint or a uniball. But what you are getting at is true for any suspension joint. I understand that this trucks design with the ball joint is trying to pull the ball out of the socket. But if im understanding you, you're saying that the uniball is just as likely to come out of the race as the ball joint is and there is no proof that the uniball is any less likely to pop out of the "socket" correct? If that's what you're saying, then I would argue that the proof of the uniball working without failing in that orientation is in the following images. Here are some examples of Camburg and Total Chaos kits that load the uniball the same exact way the first gen ball joint is loaded, By pulling downward and constantly loading the ball by trying to pull it down and out of the socket. Considering that there aren't countless examples of these tried and true products failing by popping the uniball out of the race like you claim is likely to happen, I'd argue its safe to say that the uniball conversion is a stronger option than the OEM ball joint.

Camburg 2nd gen Taco Long Travel
https://camburg.com/shop/suspension...toyota-tacoma-05-race-series-long-travel-kit/





Camburg Tundra Race Long Travel
https://camburg.com/shop/suspension...toyota-tundra-07-race-series-long-travel-kit/




Total Chaos 2nd gen Tacoma Long Travel standard series


Total Chaos Caddy Lower Uniball Conversion