Spongy brakes - maybe I’m not used to it?

Hi All,

My 98 1st gen has really soft feeling/spongy brakes. I’ve only had the truck a month and when I got it the brakes were not working right. The prop valve wasn’t working (so no rear brakes were working) and the brake booster was leaking on the diaphragm. So I replaced the following:

New master cylinder
New brake booster (with front paper seal)
New brake hoses
New front calipers, rotors and pads
New rear wheel cylinders
New OEM prop valve

Now that I completed all the work and bleed the system the brakes feel really soft and spongy when it’s running like I have to push the brake about 1/2 way in to get any real engagement. When the car is off the brakes firm up rock solid after about 3 pumps so I’m thinking I’m just not used to it. The car does stop fine but just feels like a lot of pedal travel.

Any input from all of you who know what “normal” should feel like is much appreciated. It’s difficult when I have only previously drove it with issues.

 

Did you adjust up the shoes and your using the parking brake to keep them adjusted up.

It sounds like you still have Air in the System it takes a long time to bleed all the air out of the LSPV lines.

You did get fluid out of the new wheel cylinders ??

Brake shoes out of adjustment will give you long pedal travel but not spongy !

Quite Possible to be sucking Air at any of your connections without leaking fluid. The same with bleeder valves .

Are you vacuum bleeding ?

Good Luck!

 

Thank you for the input. Yes I did adjust the shoes and the e brake has the correct tension when you pull it.

Yes I did get fluid and air out of the wheel cylinders. I bled the system twice in the following order: LSVP, Rear right, rear left, front right, front left. I also bench bled the master cylinder before hand. I am doing it the old school way with help while the full weight of the vehicle is on the ground. As far as I can tell none of the connections are leaking or sucking in air as the second time I bled everything there was still no new bubbles.

Maybe I will try to continue bleeding the system again. When I did it, I bled each spot until there was no visible bubbles coming out in the line then went several more pumps.

 

How're your front wheel bearings? If they're sloppy that can cause a soft pedal. At least that's the case on second gen, I can only assume it's the same on first gen.

 

I'd bet there is still air in the lines. 98 is non-ABS, right? If you have ABS things get tricky- the ABS pump has to be cycled. I am not even sure how to do that...

However, I am a huge fan of the Motiv power bleed system. Admittedly, it can be a pain to get the universal adaptor to seal to the Toyota master cylinder, but the results are well worth the effort. Can you get there the 'ol fashioned way? Sure. But the power bleeder makes it foolproof- and you can easily cycle a ton of fluid through the system.

 

The dealer has a computer that can cycle the abs system. I believe I saw the same obd2 handheld tool on Amazon once but it wasn't cheap.

 

Thanks for all the tips everyone!

it does has ABS. I wonder if that is the culprit?

I read that having worn rear drums makes it feel soft too because the wheel cylinders have to travel a lot to engage the drums… My shoes are not new but still have prob 25-30% material left. I wonder if this would help?

 

I think given the work you listed above, it is possible that you introduced some air into the ABS module.

The rear wheel cylinders and brakes are pretty cheap to replace than say new calipers. If I were in your shoes, I'd refresh the rear brakes, hit it with the power bleeder, and see where you get to.

 

If you are using a pressure bleeder do you still need to cycle the ABS or does the pressure bleeder force fluid through the abs system?

 

You would still need to cycle the ABS.

 

You said your e brake “has the right tension” but how many clicks does it make when you pull it? Mine pulled out WAY too far and I had to pull the rear hubs and adjust the star wheel to the point I felt friction. After that my brakes were MUCH better.

Make sure you double check both front and rear after running however. If your rear drums are really hot after no vigorous braking then you’ve adjusted too much and the shoes are dragging. Similarly if there’s no heat in them after what should have generated some then you know they are not engaging properly.