4th Gen Tacoma (2024+)

But of course.

By using the same platform across the spectrum, they’ll save a ton in tooling and redesign costs. That said, larger heavier batteries (for hybrid) may require structural redesign that can accommodate both, EV and hybrid and plain ICE.

And speaking of the new semi-hybrid TOYOTA Tundra, that system looks like overly complicated trouble prone and repair nightmare to me. I won’t be looking at any Tundras with the half wanna-be hybrid system for a long, long while.

 

https://youtu.be/RDnfLEFugRE

 

Emissions are everything right now. Toyota has no choice but to produce a lower emissions ICE engine. T4 & T4 hybrid it is.

 

I think the speculation of a unibody 4Runner comes from one of Automotive presses’ recent videos.

He visited his friends at Toyota corporate in Japan. He asked questions about the 4Runner, and the information he got from Toyota Corporate was very negative.

From what he said, Japan HQ doesn’t understand why the 4Runner is popular, and they don’t want to make it anymore. They don’t understand American truck culture either.

the fact that Crown is here now instead of the Avalon is a clue, I think, that Toyota wants to cut down on the models it offers.

why make a 4Runner when they already have the Land Cruiser prado? The Prado is sold everywhere except here. If they just sell the Prado here, they could probably save a bunch on R&D and Fixed manufacturing costs/capital investments.

the Prado could fill the role of the 4Runner while bringing back the Land Cruiser name to America.

anyways, based on the garbage TNG-F models we already got(CR won’t even recommend the Tundra). I don’t have my hopes up for any of the new models.

 

Mike sweers favors these guys.

they always seem to be mysteriously close to test mules, and Mike always gives them the most interview time.

the “inside source” was probably Mike himself…Stirring up the hype train.

 

Love this. This is the Crown's hybrid powertrain and it scoots. Gets 28 mpg combined. Tacoma will likely come in 2-3 MPG less than this though.

 

Toyota could sell the LC Prado in the US and they probably will given the success of the 4Runner.

I think Toyota also wants to compete in the large unibody SUV space with Jeep Grand Cherokee/Dodge Durango Ford Explorer both of which are RWD if not AWD and Chevy Traverse wich is FWD. 4Runner unibody would make sense, and if LC is still available as a BOF. Toyota won't lose traditional 4Runner sales.

Toyota has the Grand Highlander which I guess is a longer FWD based of the current HL.

The new 4Runner could be based on the new Crown, and probably won't be RWD.

I don't think Toyota will build a 4Runner pick up DCSB version of the Tacoma but more in line with what 4Runner offers. Toyota could do a Land Cruiser pick up based of the new Tacoma DCSB, LC. Toyota could market a Land Cruiser Line of vehicles in the US with the Prado SUV, Prado pick up, and Toyota could always include the 300 if they wanted to.

 

I didn't say that...

There's something special about driving a 4x4 with a stick and adequate power behind it. I do it overseas and my Tacoma TRD Pro and Gladiator Rubicon are the only two pickups that currently give me that stateside at the moment in a nimble 4WD package. The Ram Cummins we own at a property down south, is not so nimble...

The newer Jeeps (ie my Gladiator) compared to the JK, drive much more carlike compared to the Tacoma 6MT, even with SFAs. I like the rugged, but sporty nature of the current Tacoma 6MT. FCA removed so much rugged character from the JL and JT.

Yes and 4 total. No BEV though and no 4.0L 1GR-FE.

Yes and no. 90% likely to be that, but don't count out another application of GR, such as the Lexus 8GR-FKS. The nomenclature has yet to be confirmed for me. The 2GR-FKS made its debut in the 2016 Tacoma, before migrating to Lexus models and Toyota unibodies.

Not so sure about that, as those 4 are not PHEVs. A Tacoma Prime is under consideration, as is a Tundra Prime for midcycle. The Tundra was much more ambitious originally when Ann Arbor and Plano were in charge, before it was forced onto TNGA-F and many concessions were made.

I never said that of course, 1GR-FE is definitely not it. That's for Asia and developing regions maybe, with bad fuel quality.

While I now refrain from commenting on Ford product planning, I do believe we will be a major threat to the upcoming Tacoma and that something such as styling, is extremely subjective. We designed a great looking pickup. Our P703 is highly regarded by most and so will the U.S. equivalent P703N, entering dealers next year. Toyota has possibly made a mistake with their final engine lineup choices for MY 2024, just as they did with the Tundra from what I have heard internally.

Same, but I question where they got any new information from? They are only good at spy shots and nothing else. Seems interesting how everything on this front was dead, until I gave commentary recently and then it all spread around more once again...

They are wrong outside of Hybrid Max, which is TRD Pro specific.

I've said this for several years now, being that many internal and external factors, dictated such a long lifecycle for the 2nd generation Tacoma. Instead of full redesign for MY 2013/14, Toyota opted for a major update for 2012 and then bigger version of that in the form of Major-Minor Change for MY 2016.

Product planning woes dictated the long life of that only, because the 3rd generation was always known internally to be a cleverly engineered stop-gap for a 6-8 year run at most, against potential future competition in GMs 31xx (debuted in 2014) and the off chance Ford came through with a new Ranger (came much later than expected).

The 3rd generation was always expected to conclude between the 2021-2023 Model Years and no later. A reason why I have often gotten very annoyed at folks doubting the credibility of a 2023 or 2024 MY redesign, since this is information directly from Toyota product planning personnel and Tier 1 suppliers, going back to 2011.

A lot of folks who comment off the cuff on it being too soon, don't even know the specific floor dates generations began production by the exact day/week/month/year, to properly lineup the lifecycles against each other. Yet, they are often quick to name MY 2025/26/27 for the 4th generation Tacoma. Do they work in the industry is my question, to be questioning what some of us are reliably reporting?

Nonetheless, the 2nd generation was very special for its time and a watershed moment, seeing as Toyota wanted to dethrone everyone in the compact-midsize during planning in the early 2000s. And they absolutely succeeded. The amount of Tacoma configurations only increased with the 2nd generation, not the typical inverse trend.

To think that the 2UZ V8 in the Tacoma definitely was considered as an accompaniment to the V8 Limited 4Runner, but was vetoed due to the lateness of the 2nd generation Tundra, meant this would severely impact facelift 1G Tundra sales before the 5.7L finally hit in 2007. Then of course the recession, plus the decision to keep the newer 4.6L UR from 5G 4Runner (N280) and keep it as a Lexus exclusive only in the midsize arena. Would've taken some more Dodge Dakota 4.7L sales, save for hardcore buyers and/or those in love with a having 6-speed manual V8.

The 3rd generation is barely a real generation, so no surprise the 2nd generation managed to be the longest by consequence.

The 4Runner changed trajectory, while the Tacoma has not. Look at a Toyota product planning chart in 2014 and you'd see that the 989A was due for launch in Q3 2015 for MY 2016 as the Tacoma, while the 4Runner had no future. Another Tacoma program was earmarked for midcycle, Fall 2019 - MY 2020. The next? Was MY 2023, July 2022 SOP.

Visit that chart again in December 2019, you'd see 4Runner on deck for MY 2023 Q4 2022 launch. Tacoma now listed as MY 2024, September 2023 launch. Tundra as December 2021 launch and Sequoia for MY 2023.

By June 2021, the 4Runner was now January 2024 Job 1 for March 2024 launch and the 2024 Tacoma still for August 2023 Job 1, for late September 2023 arrival.

By October 2021, the Tacoma was now delayed to December 2023 Job 1 for January/Feb 2024 launch. This has not yet changed since Q3 2021, according to Toyota Technical Center Ann Arbor internal docs confirmed for me recently by an unnamed source at Toyota.

The 4Runner according to a guy working on its commodity, claims it shifted for sure months ago, based on a prototyping phase being too far out in January 2024 and clearly not at Job 1 as originally expected back in 2021. He states it's now July 2024 Job 1, which means late August or September launch in 2024. MY 2025 then. I mentioned this months ago.

Why wouldn't any of the information I have put forward for the past 4+ years, be irrefutable? From various personnel at Toyota in Plano, Michigan, and in Canada, including Tier 1 suppliers, this has been the case since 2019.

Before the current decade, I literally was the only individual commenting on the 4th generation Tacoma. At the time, I knew the Tacoma to be the all-new 2023 Tacoma. Internally at my job, the Tacoma is recognized as an important competitor. The little research I did in the mid-late 2010s, confirmed what I had learned in the early 2010s. Toyota was doing a minor redesign on the same frame basis for what they called the 3rd generation Tacoma for MY 2016 and that vehicle ended production in June 2022 back then, after a 7 year run. The replacement vehicle, was scheduled for Job 1 in July 2022 for August/September 2022 delivery. I learned in 2016, that there would be a small exterior update for 2018 in Fall 2017 and 2020 MMC in Fall 2019.

I first went public with this information, on the eve of the 2020 MMC being revealed, back in January 2019. Prior to that, all 4th generation Tacoma discussion I limited to some Lexus circle of insiders/experts, who kept our discussions confined to (general) privacy.

For another good 1-2 more years, I'd been the sole source of discussion on the subject, somewhat attacked at times for "BSing" folks or being too premature with bringing up a truck, "not due until 2026". On a professional level, I've known otherwise for more than half a decade. Bear in mind I worked on the 2012 Tacoma in the early 2010s as an intern, when Toyota was forming the business case for the 3rd generation Tacoma and was using the very vehicle I was working on, as filler to give it a longer lifecycle against 0 zero competition.

Exactly, but I'm not sure why this has to be verified over and over. I keep wondering what changed each time, any is skeptical of MY 2024. I said very, VERY recently I got direct confirmation from Toyota of Job 1 on this truck and that they started building U.S.-assembled prototypes of the real deal in Michigan 6 weeks ago. I didn't make it up. 2 or 3 of us seem to be the only guys directly commenting on this truck on the forum and we aren't being dishonest in any sense. I respect anyone else who keeps mum on this subject, because I understand the risks the same, just not in a Toyota capacity, since I do not have my own NDA with them.

Toyota has multiple subsidiaries and the majority of info on this program, will be out of Ann Arbor and not Plano in most cases, which is ironically where I am today...

A lot of folks in Canada are also working on this truck as suppliers. Even some from Kentucky.

Expected and well stated, as that's just how it goes. Anything based solely at Japan HQ, will not be known until Ann Arbor gets their hands on it. We do have a forum member working on the 4Runner, out of Ontario though as a Tier 1 supplier. He comments here, but I won't give him away though. Very good source too.

Although some Japanese media outlets threw around the words "uniframe" for the next Prado, I don't buy into them. The 4Runner was originally expected to remain true to form and nothing too radical. Very nice attention on the interior, as well as being delayed due to the situation with its hybrid powertrain. It was also delayed, because the strong sales of the current model allow them to take extra time on it. This was indicative of the 1st major delay from MY 2023 to MY 2024.5. The current delay to Fall 2024, is unknown to me at the moment and I only discovered this, from my special source on that program.

The BOF Land Cruiser return was something I learned years ago from a Lexus forum administrator, who back then leaked to me information about the Mirai vs Lexus 5GS, Venza, Corolla Cross, specific details on the Tundra, 4Runner plans, Sequoia, and some other stuff I cannot recall.

He mentioned this: A hardcore offroader, 5-seater meant to take on serious offroaders as well. Much cheaper than the 200-Series and drops all the luxury pretensions.

I sat on that information out of respect for the rest of the year. In the new year, I decidedly reported on that in a ghostwritten fashion to the automotive press as an unnamed insider and it lit the internet on fire (Toyota wise).

I backed away from that Land Cruiser theory over time, once it got taken out of context by stupid Australian media and clickbait whores, who (the former) never seem to mind their business once anything related to Land Cruiser is mentioned and bastardized the context by roping it in with the 300-Series. Everyone started assigning their expectations to the 300-Series for MY 2022/23 and not what was planned.

I knew otherwise and hinted at MY 2024 at earliest, because I already knew in 2019-2020 Toyota had no plans for such a vehicle by December 31, 2022. The launch date wasn't defined yet per that 2019 conference, but for them to be commenting on such a vehicle in 2019 to Toyota USA staff, told me enough. That vehicle had to have been underway prior to 2019 and would launch within 5 years of 2018-19, absolutely = 2023-24. Mr. Mike didn't say that to me, because the Toyota sources at that conference only went by what their execs hinted at.

I deduced on my own, what Toyota was doing. Taking a nameplate out of the marketplace, for advanced design team to get to work and brainstorm from scratch the best possible approach. This was the approach taken with the Lexus SC transitioning into Lexus LC. Discontinue expensive, poor selling product. Quietly task CALTY Newport Beach with designing an emotional product, that if feasible for production, can be extremely profitable in North America and draw in buyers to the showroom.

In 2021, color me shocked when I discovered what Lexus was developing as the 3rd generation GX. The 2024 GX 550 which begins production next October. None other than what was proposed as being in the cards for TOYOTA back in 2019. I abruptly withdrew any expectation and began drift away from the whispers about the 5-seater Land Cruiser for USA.

The BEV mini-FJ design study from 364 days ago made me rethink my stance, as well as some more information expanding upon my 2019-20 discoveries.

I am somewhat skeptical of what I first mentioned in February 2020, as coming to market now as a production vehicle, since I had believed that the GX 550 had taken up that mantle. If that isn't the case, what does this mean for the Land Cruiser nameplate in the USA? Does this mean that the Prado isn't this vehicle, but remains true to form and so does the 4Runner, while this new Land Cruiser addition and the Lexus GX, diverge into a new niche?

The Prado by all accounts, doesn't seem to be very revolutionary and many renderings show it to be evolutionary, with strong similarities to the outgoing 150-Series. Are Toyota developing a modern 70-Series off of TNGA-F, for the GX and this new Land Cruiser, while 4Runner and Prado are retained as more road friendly versions of BOF vehicles?

Does the "uniframe" rumor out of Japan in 2020-21, start to make sense for not just Prado, but 4Runner? While GX and LC become something else entirely? I want to disagree with you and say that the 4Runner will be strictly ladder frame, but I don't see how both that Land Cruiser and 4Runner can be in the same lineup, with TNGA-F Sequoia above them as well and unibody TNGA-K, 7-8 seater Grand Highlander as well.

Indeed, as GA-F aka TNGA-F, was designed to cover all ladder frame vehicles. There's no other architecture to base a unibody 4Runner on, unless TNGA-L is adapted for utilities. That would be extremely expensive though and price the 4Runner through the stratosphere.

I had hinted at this two-tiered USA BOF lineup (sub-Sequoia years ago, but I eventually shut up because there's only so much speculation I like to put out there with dead-ended info, before looking like a clueless idiot. I feel bad already regarding the non-THS T24A-FTS, I suggested would be in the Tacoma. As well as the V35A-FTS V6. Try to mind my commentary a bit.

4Runner lineup could be condensed significantly to eliminate hardcore offroad variants, while this Land Cruiser from what I heard in 2019 was a special secret, asked to be kept quiet and would be a dedicated, hardcore offroader with no luxury pretensions. 5-Seater only. I don't communicate with the source of this information anymore, but I trust his credibility strongly and 100% everything else they said, was dead accurate.

They can actually see my comments here in most instances, but I imagine eyeroll at them LOL. No hard feelings of course, as I imagine they feel betrayed and cynical over my commentary. They have also seen the next generation "Lex G-Wagen" GX 550, but I haven't. He first mentioned in 2018, that the redesigned 4Runner was evolutionary and that the Sequoia would follow several months after the redesigned Tundra hit dealers. Very credible source of info, as the Lexus GS becoming the Mirai came from him. Idiots took that out of context.

Yes, but something feels off all of a sudden. I thought Toyota had invested in the GX as the sole retrochic boxy offering, but now it seems this Toyota is the parallel offering to the GX instead and what does that mean for 4Runner? Is Akio Toyoda just having fun throwing money around? Is it going to be:

• TNGA-C
  • Corolla Cross (UX)
• TNGA-K
  • RAV4
  • --------(NX)
  • Venza
  • Crown
  • Highlander --- (RX)
  • Grand Highlander --- (TX)
• TNGA-F
  • 4Runner
  • (Prado)
  • Land Cruiser --- (GX 550)
  • Sequoia --- (LX 600)

And let's not forget, Yaris Cross?

These two paragraphs are not accurate to my knowledge. The 300-Series is not in the cards over here, outside of the Lexus brand. That's what I recall being said. Now for the 4Runner, that wasn't delayed for those reasons. It was powertrain related, directly from someone working on it.

The Fortuner is adjacently marketed version against the 4Runner, which is more upscale and sits between both Prado/GX and Fortuner. Fortuner is based on the rough world IMV body on frame architecture shared with the ugly ass Innova and well known Hilux as you said. SUV version of it. This was more obvious for the first generation, but the current generation masks that better and is much better built in terms of fit & finish. The 4Runner is basically the SUV version of the Tacoma, instead built in Japan and with a boxed frame. That changes next generation.

I said this years ago and then lost confidence in that rumor (I was told in 2019 out of a Toyota USA meeting). Especially when I heard about the 2024 GX last year, but after seeing the mini FJ BEV concept and then having this Land Cruiser creep up all over the place much of the rest of 2022, I am shocked such a tidbit I made public in 2020, came true in the end, after going cold/dead. It felt like Toyota played a bait and switch when I leaked that (hurt my credibility), to only go more public on it, when I went radio silent on that subject.

I believe DJ had already hinted a few times that he doesn't work for Toyota directly, but does his best to respect their confidence and I have seen that play out in some of our discussions between each other. I do the same in most cases, but I have less at risk than he does of course in my own capacity.

Well, Toyota Technical Center and/or marketing heads down here in Plano, have opted to not allow capture of Tacoma prototypes wearing the final design. They are now popping up, as seen here. TOLD YA! Those earlier covered up mules are not the final design, which is on purpose.

I think I can give some insight privately, as to some concessions related to TNGA-F for at least the Tundra.

Well stated once again. This is how it goes pretty much industry wise. When it comes to non-premium nameplates, I'm a Ford guy by profession and Toyota guy by ownership of some vehicles, both stateside and abroad. You've done pretty well to respect certain boundaries.

And where did they get such information, pray tell? The T24A-FTS is allegedly hybrid only.

I wonder if it was my own commentary being passed around, as this interestingly only popped up once I commented on my recent discoveries over the last week. No one else has said much prior to that about Hybrid Max, because the timing is more than a coincidence. They are wrong however.

The Tacoma is already a Prado pickup, just with a C-Channel Frame. I doubt the 300-Series is coming here. The 4Runner is not a FWD unibody GA-K product, according to people working on it as suppliers. It is TNGA-F, but it doesn't make sense alongside a hardcore Land Cruiser.

The Prado is either evolutionary along the lines of the outgoing 150-Series or a revolutionary product, like the 2024 GX and will be under Land Cruiser nameplate in USA. USA 300-Series is not in the cards, outside of Lexus.

 

This may be slightly off topic, but based off what Ford did with the Maverick I’d be very interested to see the next generation Ranger vs Tacoma…

 

I thought toyota was delaying the 4th gen tacoma and 6th gen 4runner, because all the issues they had building the Tundra during covid due to supply change issues. They are Still having issues with supplies, reason they stopped production of the rav4 and 4runner this month.

 

If TFL is been fed information, I don’t think that is by accident. Toyota is purposely leaking this information.

There are just too many coincidences with their coverage. A few months ago, Andre just happened to be in a parking lot with all the Tacoma Test mules.

I fully expect a new Land Cruiser (not the 300 series), and a new Tacoma to be announced this year.

 

The prospect of a T4 Hybrid does not break my heart. Could be impressive HP/TQ figures all while maintaining good fuel economy. My only real concern is reliability, gone will be the days of Toyota trucks hitting 250,000miles and beyond with just oil changes.

 

Agreed! I am not going full electric anytime in this decade, but a reliable Tacoma (look at the prius) might be really nice.

 

That’s the reality.

If Toyota is now just like all the other guys, what’s the whole point?

I’ve been a loyal Toyota truck fan my entire life.

this realization actually hurts me emotionally.

 

Feel free to PM me then man. I always love a good wall of text coming from you.

 

I know a guy whose brother's sister-in-law delivers pizza to Toyota headquarters. She has given me tons of inside info but made me promise not to say anything because she doesn't want to risk her tips. When I see the info hit the press I will post here and confirm I knew it in advance.

 

If it looks like the electric concept “Tacoma” I’ll be signing up to dump my 2022, but if we are getting a shrunk down Tundra, I’m keeping this one awhile. Not near as excited as I was with the 3rd gen leaks.

 

I have PMed you now, with some background details not really known to the public.

 

We miss your insights over on the 4runner forum.

 

I'm logged in right now, shifting through a whole bunch of posts I need to reply to and more. I'm in Plano right now BTW.