LP9 vs SS5 - How do the two flagship pods compare?

At first I wasn't sure this was a good apples to apples comparison but since both pods have nine lights, and are each their company's #1 pod-style light, maybe it's a better comparison than it seems. What are your thoughts on these two lights when directly compared to each other?






First off, this guy did a direct comparison between the LP6 and SS5 and both were shown to be fabulously bright and nearly comparable. The LP6 has a better spread while the SS5 has a brighter hot spot.




So then, how would the LP9 compare to the SS5? If the LP6 is roughly on par, does that mean the LP9 would blow the SS5 out of the water? The comparison, to me, is even more intriguing considering they both have nine lights each.


If you compare the price of both, one SS5 Pro is $350 while one LP9 Pro is $600 ($650 for the Racer Edition). So essentially for the price of one LP9, you could have two SS5s. In that case, how would one LP9 Pro compare to two SS5 Pros (with the same or similar beam pattern)?


This guy has two LP9's on his jeep (@3:17):



This guy has six SS5's on his jeep (four linked on the front bumper and two as ditch lights @1:52):



I searched google for output shots of the LP9 and these were the best pics I could find (no telling how many pods are being used):



Here is a pic of Too Stroked's SS5's (I believe just two pods):


These are two beasts for sure. Has anyone seen both in person, or seen them go directly head to head in person? It would be interesting to hear what you would choose and why, and what you feel is the overall winner in total illumination. Especially when you get into the intricacies of 1 v 1 straight up, and 1 LP9 vs 2 SS5s, etc.

 

That top LP9 still shot screams oversaturated camera settings lol. Without a direct, head to head comparison with the same camera and camera settings, there's no way to even begin to use pictures for fair comparisons.

 

Paging @crashnburn80

 

It does look oversaturated. But it's one of the few pics I could find so I just threw it up there. Hopefully someone in the know will be able to decipher everything and give us a real comparison and legit breakdown of both. Especially head to head.

 

Two LP9s on the front bumper (click to watch on youtube):


Quote from a different message board:

Here's a guy with an 8-link SS5 bar above his windshield. He only shows the light output for a few seconds (skip to 14:10):


4-link SS5 bar on front bumper (skip to 13:00): - Probably the best SS5 video I've yet seen.


I hope someone will eventually do a direct head to head. If not 1 v 1 then 1 v 2. I'm honestly curious how 4 LP9s vs 8 SS5s would look. It's hard to judge from seperate videos with different camera settings and whatnot, but for roughly the same price, 4 v 8 is an interesting comparison. I'm also curious how output is affected once the temperatures of each pod stabilizes. Which one is going to lose more light? A comment from the first video posted in the OP said BD lights can decrease output by 50% once the temp stabilizes.

Here's another quote from the original video talking about LP9 vs SS5 (since both have 9 LEDs):

Makes me wonder how crazy the SS5 would be if it used 15W LEDs instead of 10W. 9 x 15 = 135W.

 

@Mix_99.3

The ss5 pro uses cree xpl-HI LEDs, like the SS3 Pro pod before it. It is the high intensity/domeless variation of the cree XPL led, which is nominally rated at a maximum drive current of 3 amps. The issue is the chipe size. The XPL and xpl-HI use the 3.5x3.5mm format (shared by many LED manufacturers), so it comes down to how effectively heat can be transferred through the ceramic chip base, away from the diode, to the heatsink. With sufficient cooling, many pocket rocket flashlights can pump 15w through the xpl-hi - for short periods of time. However while more input power numbers can be impressive, it doesn't necessarily translate to significantly increased output.

As crash's testing has shown in the fog pod thread, and other comme ters have stated, the BD lights suffer a signoficant amount of ther.al throttling. Its unfortunate, but its just a physical reality. The <pod> only has so much surface area and so much mass. BD wants to "chase numbers," and push max power, but outside of use in cold environments or at high speeds (for airflow) they're also going to have to severely throttle back the power to the LEDs once the lamp heats up, otherwise they risk damaging their reputation by burning out LEDs constantly when people use these pods at low speeds. Even with a no questions asked type of attitude towards returns, no one would want to buy a lamp that may be massive performer, if they're "known" to burn out on mall crawler/insta-queen rigs.

The same thermal throttling would likely be experienced by the DD pods if they were pushing 15w into each of the xpl-HI LEDs. And they'd be 50% over max rated current. They'd survive, but probably start having a large number of warranty claims within a year/18months of sale. They could step up to use the XHP-35 LED, which uses the larger 5x5mm format, and uses 4 ~~XP-G~~ XP-E dies packaged tightly together, but the overall die size is larger than the xpl-HI, it has a (minute, but apparent) dead spot in the dead center of the die (the optimal focal point for the reflector or optic design), and it would require them to redesign their PCB assembly to account for the new forward voltage requirements (although now that Im thinking of it, the xhp35 may be available in 3v, 6v and 12v variations...) and then because of the larger die size, and still not seeing 50% greater output for 50% more power, they will see more initial output, but exacerbate the focus and beam pattern changes that can already be seen across their SS1/2/3/5 lineup between the sport and Pro models, what with the Sports using a significantly smaller LED chip than the xpl-HI. They would see closer to a 50% raw output increase going from the xpl-HI to the XHP-50 LED, which uses 4 ~~xpl~~ XP-G dies, but thats an even larger focus issue than the xhp35...

It ultimately comes down to a formula, where you can design a pod of a certain peripheral size, alter its shape to attempt to maximise surface area (and as you remove metal you remove thermal mass, which is ultimately your buffer between start up performance and stable output except in cold environments), and then start to tailor your LED selection based on what type of optic/reflector you are working with or willing to redesign around. You can't cheat a few basic limitations: mass, surface area, driver circuit efficiency (because your circuit design may save you $5+/unit but be 10+% more heat output) and LED efficiency (specifically your LED efficiency at high input power and non-optimal cooling, both in the thermal pathway and accounting for maximum heat dissipation based on typical and worst-case uses) limit your maximum stable power input. Your LED selection changes either the maximum level of performance you can achieve with an existing optics package, or you have to bear the expense of redesigning or starting from scratch with a new optics design. Your optics design/redesign may change your lamp design, altering the lamps mass or surface srea, which starts you right bsck around again worrying about heat...

EDIT- I mixed up the die's used in the cree xh-p led's. The quad/2×2 arrangememt is still correct, and still can result in intra-beam artifacts.

 

@Too Stroked, that is a fantastically simple breakdown!!! It would still be pretty cool to see how the LP9 variants would compare to the SS5 variants.

What I find interesting is the customer base that I see online and in person. People who have BD lights tend to be very brand loyal no matter what evidence there is showing another brand is better or how they are using a light incorrectly for a given product. DD owners do tend to have some brand loyalty too, but most tend to be more open minded and data driven in their decisions. This is not to say that BD is junk. But if I were ready to drop $1200 on a pair of LP9 Pro's, you best believe I'm checking out what else is out there for that kind of money.

 

I would really like to see somone do a comparison with the $36 Ebay version. I am pretty sure all your $600 & $1200 is buying you is a nice logo on the same white label ebay light.
I have always had ebay lights on my truck, they come in a blank box and no logo and look and perform exactly like their high price name brand twin. None of mine have ever had a failure, and are just as bright as anything name brand.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374461837826

 

i did that with some copycat squadrons. they produced more then half the light output of the real ones.

 

If you've never had anything but eBay lights, how can you say that the Diode Dynamics and Baja Designs lights are no better?

BTW, I've had cheap eBay lights before and there's simply no comparison.

 

I wasted money on a rigid light bar when they first came out, and never again.
I been next to people that have name brand lights and they didnt seem any brighter. This past weekend,my friend just got that $2000 KC gravity 8 light bar on his jeep, and it was only slightly brighter than the 4 Ebay "Light cannons" I have on my roll/light bar bar. We both agreed it was not $2000 better/brighter. By the (unflitered) photo I provided, I don't think anyone can say those are poor performing lights.

But I will agree with you, I have seen some of the EBay/Amazon lights are absolute crap, you can tell by the fit and finish. They look like crap and perform like crap. I have always bought from high rated stores, with good reviews and everything has been top notch. Call me lucky.

 

i would say if you are happy with your lights then great, and i wouldnt bother changing. it wont be worth the cost. if you do want good made in usa lights then 100% buy DD or BD lights and know you have great lights.
Just like the LP series, i feel they are total overkill unless you are doing 100mph+ lol

 

How noticeable would you say the throttling is? Like if I'm deep in the backcountry at midnight in the summer on a dirt road and running two to four of these on high beams while going 15mph, when they throttle down, is it going to be super noticeable? Or is it something you wouldn't really notice much with the naked eye?

 

In theory you shpuld only really notice it if you keep a set off and switch back and forth. Our perception of light is not linear, it's roughly logarithmic, meaning it takes approximately 4x the light to perceive it as a doubling of perceptible light. Directly comparing the same light, one that has throttled to 50% original output and one thats starting "cold" will be enough to tell there's a difference. But it won't be a "huge" visible difference. Just noticeable. With our logarithmic light perception, changes in intensity of about 40% are just noticeable (if everything else is kept identical). All these things make "eyeballing" comparisons between lights a difficult and very subjective task, which unfortunately also makes this an area where marketing departments and shady/poor product designers (NOT saying that about BD or anyone else, just casting a very wide net over the vast market of asian rip off products) can make very cheap and Objectively poor lights seem like a much better buy than something that is actually well designed and manufactured to a high standard.

If you download and read through the first pdf paper on this site:

https://www.hdssystems.com/Articles/

The "LED Flashlight Whitepaper," you can read more about it in the section about the human visual system. While the paper is old, the same rules apply.

 

Finally, a direct comparison:

 

I ran two LP6s on my Wrangler and they were the brightest things I’d ever seen. I miss them, and now want LP9s for my next rig.

 

Thanks for sharing, but like most Headlight Revolution videos, I just wanted to puke. It's about as unscientific as you can get - which is typical for them. And speaking as one who has a set of DD SS5 Pro Spot beams on my T4R, why would you test the lower performing Sport versions? As for the output, why does this shot of my lights look nothing like the pathetic shot the video showed? Sorry, but HL is pretty much a joke in my humble opinion.