5speed hard to shift out of reverse or into first (solved)

Ok, first issue since massive rebuild of the truck. I've put almost 200 miles on it so far.

Twice today, I had difficulty shifting after using reverse twice on the way to work this morning. The second time was the worst. The first was backing out of the driveway, the second was backing out of a gas station parking space.

It went into reverse fine, but was very hard to shift out. Once shifted out, it didn't want to go into any other gear. It didn't want to go into first, so I tried other gears to see if it would go into anything. After some cussing it finally went into first, with difficulty. After that, shifting was smooth in and out of all gears (except reverse, I didn't want to risk trying it again and getting stuck somewhere.)

Anyway, the struggle did not produce any weird noises. Just stuck. Was afraid to force anything and break the shift lever.

Whats new?

Gear oil
LCE clutch and heavy flywheel
Master/slave cylinders (OEM)
Throwout bearing
Pilot bearing
Fork
URD Short shift kit

Thinking I might pull the shifter console out and inspect the hardware this afternoon, to see if I see anything weird. Fluid is full, I could try bleeding it just to rule that out.

 

Did you try to cut it off and see if it shifted?

 

I did not, but I will be sure to check if it happens again.

 

I just wonder if the clutch was releasing....

 

I'll visually inspect the function of the slave/fork this afternoon.

 

So it’s happening trying to shift into first too, from a stop. I had to stop on a hill and couldn’t get it into first. Shut it off, then it shifted into first fine, cranked it up and I was able to go.

 

I bled the clutch lines. Maybe there was a little air in it. Not a lot. Bled it till fully clear (it’s new fluid) and topped off the master. Fork is fine, not broken (it’s new anyway). Shifts fine when shut off.

Didn’t test idling shift after bleed. Will in the morning.

Before bleeding, it got worse. Had to stop somewhere on the way home, when I went to leave it was hard to go into reverse from neutral to back out of my parking space. Then it wouldn’t come out again or go into another gear. Shut off and shifted into first just fine then cranked it up and drove away. Wondering if a few possible microscopic bubbles in the lines could have caused it. I hope so, don’t want it to become a more labor intensive job.

Other obligations kept me from taking out the console today. I’ll prob look at it tomorrow. Might drive my spare truck till then.

 

These are the **exact** symptoms I experienced in this thread.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2003-manual-hydraulic-clutch-fluid.789748/

In my case somehow the clutch fluid got low, got air in the line, bled it out and all is hunky dory (no leaks, still puzzling.) What you describe is the clutch is not disengaging. With the synchro tranny you can shift all the gears but first and reverse are going to be rough if possible at all.

Did the bleeding fix it for you? (unclear by your last post.) With new M/S cylinders and all the rest you shouldn't be experiencing issues.

There is a washer under the shifter that sometimes erodes, but it's not likely the problem. How do I know? Same as you, checking all points of failure lol . . . . I had one on hand from Rock Auto, replaced it, but it didn't really need it, the old one was still in good shape. I'd say don't waste your time, but it doesn't take very long if you do it.

 

Well this gave me peace of mind to try driving it this morning after bleeding it yesterday. It did improve things, but still a little sticky. Here's the details.

I forgot to mention I have new Marlin Crawler heavy duty shifter bushings installed. ( and the URD short shift kit)

My MO when parking is to shut it off in neutral, then press clutch and lock it in 1st.

This morning:

Cold and not cranked: Shifter felt stiff, came out and didn't want to shift anywhere (IIRC)

Cold cranked: Shift out and went into reverse gear fine, backed out of driveway and shifted into 1st fine. Drove on my merry way.

After a few miles: stopped a couple red lights. It resisted going into 1st on the green lights, but didn't fight me too hard. Sometimes it felt like an awkward click into gear. I tried to coast through as many lights as possible so as not to have to stop.

Stopped at gas station: This time I backed into a parking space. Went into reverse fine (maybe slight resistance?). Stopped in parking space. Before shutting off I tested to see if it would go into any gear and it would not. Shut off, did my shopping. Cranked up and it went into gear and I drove away. It did resist going into 1st, but I pumped the clutch twice (not noticing any difference in pedal feel) and it went into gear.

When shifting into almost any gear, it produces a noticeable mettalic click, like working a bolt action rifle. Most noticeable when putting into 1st at a stop to go (with windows down). Can hear it in 2nd and 3rd when moving at those low speeds. No grinding and screeching though. However, when I'm trying to shift into 5th I do get a heavy vibration in the shifter like light grinding sometimes. This has always been the case. Not sure if related. I suspect it may be me putting too much lateral pressure on the lever but idk.

 

You have all new clutch, pressure plate & throw-out bearing, master & slave cylinders....maybe its the synchros worn out??

I have a 2003 regular cab with the W59 5 speed that is doing something similar - thread here - worn out synchros is the most common answer I get.

My wife has driven this truck since 30K and it's almost all highway miles, and she's proficient with a stick shift, so I don't think it has been abused.

I can shift into every gear easily if the engine off and when the truck is cold. It's when I drive it a few hours it starts to get harder to shift into first & reverse. As soon as I get a warm dry weekend I'll check pedal adjustment & change gear oil in the tranny.

I kinda think in my case it may be the clutch not disengaging all the way due to pedal adjustment or weak pressure plate springs due to high millage on the clutch. I can't say I feel any slippage, but @ 175K I don't think getting a new clutch will be money wasted. Next issue is finding a shop without a month backlog of vehicles waiting.

 

My expertise and knowledge in transmissions stops at "synchros". If the transmission itself is going bad, I have a reputable shop nearby where I can take it to be rebuilt/replaced. The only downside is the inevitable shame I will incur from my associates to whom I've bragged about how sturdy and reliable this truck will be if I have to replace/repair the transmission after rebuilding half the rest of the truck. *sigh* small price to pay I guess.

 

Our trucks are pretty tough, if it's not abused I don't see the synchros being an issue, but you have more miles than mine.

The more I read & research it, I'm pretty sure my issue may be that the pressure plate has weakened or throw-out bearing wear is causing it not to disengage the clutch fully causing rotation of the input shaft.

A 20 year old clutch with 175K miles surely is near the end of it's useful lifespan & changing it out won't be money wasted.

 

If I recall correctly, I may have been experiencing these issues before I replaced all the other tranny components, but that was 6-8 months ago when it had a worn out slippery clutch and fully disentigrated shifter bushings.

Did a little city driving just now, wasn’t horrible, but 1st gear wanted to resist me at every stop light. Wondering how long I can live with it. Will it ever deteriorate to the point it leaves me stranded if it is in fact the synchros i wonder.

 

I might have found the problem. My MC pushrod was out of adjustment and the lock nut for it was loose. Look at that gap before and after adjusting. The way it was, it may not have had enough downward travel to fully disengage the clutch. Only a test drive will prove it. Yes I know my return spring isn’t connected. Whoops guess I forgot that but believe me when I say the spring wouldn’t have pulled it an higher from the floor, I couldn’t with my hand.

 

Test drive was great. I feel certain the push rod adjustment was the issue. It shifted in and out of 1st and reverse with no issues this time. Also I put the spring on properly this time.

 

LOL I know the feeling, same here before bleeding. I also noted if I pumped the clutch a few times it would cooperate.

Yeah, the clutch was still spinning I think.

If by that you mean you don't know how they work, with a smooth syncro tranny once it's moving you could literally shift gears without clutching. If the speed of the engine is synchronized with the speed the tranny is turning for a given gear it will allow you to move to that gear without grinding. The "heavy vibration" could be the clutch is still engaged, it would be interesting to know what happens if you vary the engine speed while trying to shift, it could be just that. One of the ways I was convinced the clutch was still engaged was if I tried to get into first I'd rev the engine a little, sometimes it went in, sometimes it didn't.

Anyway looks like you have it sorted, the MS not pushing in hard enough would do it.

 

Alrighty then....

I checked my pedal and it had a good 1 1/2" of play in it....way too much.

I don't know how y'all got under the dash to do the adjustment, but my old ass ended up taking the seat out cause I'm too old & fat to contort around under the cramped dash and get my big hands under there to hold the shaft & tighten the lock nut at the same time. Not as roomy under there like my K5 Jimmy.

After adjustment I left myself about 1/4" of play. I took it for a test drive and it seems to me the bite-point of the clutch is higher than I remember - but i haven't driven it since 12/27 so my muscle memory may have faded. I didn't drive it long enough for the issue to show up as it did before - usually after 2 hours or so of driving.

Hopefully I can drive it more this weekend and see how it goes.

I'll still put a new clutch in it if this solves the immediate issue, maybe this buys me some time & more miles on the old one before I spend the cash.

 

I'm happy you got it figured out! I'm late to the party, but my first guess was fluid level and/or air pocket. I had a similar effect when I was young and didn't check fluid levels on my first car (1990 5-speed Maxima) and let the clutch run dry.

 

After some YouTubing, I now understand how the tranny innnards work.

After adjusting the pushrod, the bite point on mine is higher up too, just took a few days for my muscle memory to adapt.

Yep that would cause issues. Mine was new with fresh fluid so that was ruled out. No issues here since adjusting the pushrod

 

lol yep. I paid a shop $2800 to rebuild my R150F. All oem bearings synchros and input shaft along with a marlin clutch kit and new flywheel. It was worth it. Any other vehicle of this age I might of junked it if the trans took a shit.