LT/Suspension Gurus please chime in.

Howdy.

Had a long draft written up, lots of info. Draft didn't save or I can't find it. So, this one is a speed run. Please forgive me.

2005 DCSB 4X4
Bought it super beat as a daily, was long traveled, PO didn't know anything about it, they bought it that way, only said that the LCAs were custom. I've only had experience with dobinsons ims ext travel on my 4th gen 4runner before it was totaled. I can do the work though.

Front had blown swayaways.
2.5s with 700lb x 14 Kings springs.
Camburg LT UCA/LCA(unsure of actual length)
Camburg dual shock hoops
Clevis inner ties w/extension.
Ext brake lines.
Ext axle shafts.
Fiberglass fenders(dunno bulge size) heh, bulge.


I tried my best to measure these, but they were beat as hell.
22.5" ext/15.5" comp, with a 7.5" stroke. The other measured just under 7.5. I thought these were most likely an 8" that were gummed up. Probably wrong though.


I needed something to get by, was gonna rebuild these after as mains or backups but ended up selling to help the cost of other repairs.

Bought FOA 8" RR and paired with 16 x 650 kings springs.
24.5 ext/16.5 comp, 8" stroke per FOA site. (before you bash, I saw the bad stuff on them. But they were affordable, I needed what I thought would be a temp setup just to get me road worthy until I could save for better, but have had 0 issues performance wise so far)

The CV boots were blown inner and outer both sides, so I rebooted them. They are custom axle shafts from CTM as per the stamp on the shaft head. Tried looking up the number it was stamped with for an accurate length, but couldn't find anything. Wasn't able to get an accurate measurement of length with the outer CV cage still on, but am going to be rebooting outer CV(again) tomorrow, so will measure cv end to cv end for total length. The boots keep popping off the outer CVs I'm assuming due to angle, and/or clamps making contact with LCA. This is issue #1

Went down to camburg to grab new uniballs and bushings since I could not find these arms on their site to get parts. One of the camburg guys came out and looked at them, said they were a very old series +1 travel, that someone chopped the lbj off and welded in their own uniball. I've never even heard of +1 kits, nor can I really find anything on the internet about them, more specifically a camburg. I'm not doubting the dude at all, I just don't know what to do with that since everything else on there seems like its big enough for +2. Even just with the trd wheels(285/75/16), they almost fill out the wheel fender flares. What the hell is even the point of +1 though

(This is how it sat with the top perches spun 3" down. The ride wasn't harsh in any way.)

Okay, so. I bought 8" thinking this was a +2. The axle, hell even the inner tie extension look long as hell, like they're for a +2. It's supposedly a custom +1. The coilovers I have to preload the top spring perch down almost 3" to seat the coil, more than 3 if I want it snug. Otherwise at droop the coil will free float on the shaft. I know I need limit straps but even if it's not full droop they will drop with the shaft if the top perch is not spun far down to seat it. At this height, the truck sits pretty, but the CVs do not.


Usually it was even worse than that, with barely .5" between the boot and the LCA. I think I was on uneven ground in this pic. At a little less than full droop everything is making contact. The boot to the LCA, the axle shaft to the coilover. I know it's supposed to be limited droop, but it doesn't take much more down travel to get it there, which leads me to believe that at the perch height, it's already drooped out pretty far being ride height.

Today I messed around, and spun the perches to 1", and very gently lowered the truck till I could seat the coils, and then finish lowering. CV angles looked much better, damn near factory. But, the shock shafts were halfway in the body now. Mostly extended is not good, but I'd imagine mostly compressed isn't either. I'm also probably exaggerating a bit as well. But you guys will know better than me. Truck was low as hell in the front now though. Took it for a test ride. Noticably softer. But not in a bad way, like what I expected lt to feel like. Pulled back in and noticed one shock was weeping. I'm assuming it compressed too far and bled past a seal? I moved the preload perch down another .5" and this seemed to not leave a puddle, but I'm sure the seal might be done for. Was still slightly wet.
This is how it's sitting now

(The zipties just happened today, temporary, because the clamp worked itself off)

I know the pics it doesn't look like much difference, but the difference is definitely between can barely wedge my fingertip between boot rib and Lca, vs can slide my fingers completely under boot. At 1" top perch they were perfectly horizontal. But that's when the weeping started. If I start to lift the truck on a jack, the coils will fall out. I'm not gonna be launching this anytime soon, but I'd imagine anything that could make my suspension droop could potentially cause the coil to unseat.

The only real noticable difference between the FOAs and the swayaways aside from the 1-2" in length is that the foa shock body is longer. I can only really see that affecting compression length right? I mean that's exactly what is affected right now but still. On a +2 these would be fine?

So, questions are

#1 would a longer spring solve the coil drop issue? From what I read it should be 8"/16", but "can" fit longer. I mean as far as I can tell the preload would be more and I would essentially be back to the CV issue. But this is where I am not the best with figuring this part out.

#2 is there really a damn +1 kit and why would anyone buy it. Is it even worth trying to make it work out? Is there like extended spindles I'm missing? I know for 2wd there are spindle lifts, but for 4wd it's just gussetted right? No length changes? Maybe I'm just not searching right but I really have not been able to find much of anything on +1, everything comes up +2-4.5. forgive me if the info is easily found elsewhere. At this point I'm either new coilovers, or new +2 UCA/LCA(well hopefully used and deeply discounted).

#3 pending the full measurement of the CV axle tomorrow, based on the pics, do those look long enough for a +2 set up? Hell, do they look too long for a +1? Could that be the issue? How long are your +2s CVs end to end? They are kind of a pain to get in and out of the hub, but nothing so difficult that I would question if it was the wrong part. More than OEM, less than WHAT THE F@#!, if you know what I mean. I just chocked it up to LT things.

#4 Could I just preload it back up and do Bluetooth CVs for the time being? The ride height was nice when it was. Now it's a lil front squatty. But it can't be that easy right? There's gotta be some huge risks with clamping the wheel hubs and plugging the diffs and just running it like that for the time being? (I'm not going to off-road or road trip until it's fixed all the way, just daily back and forth)

#5 probably most likely but based on everything else maybe not. Is it possible the "custom" work is messing everything up? I mean, given the work that was done to it, I have to imagine the person that did all this knew what they were doing for the most part. The welds look shop worthy. I know the diy territory gets murky but the camburg guy didn't seem to think it was an issue. At least he didn't say anything like that.



This ended up longer than I thought. Again. Just trying to give as much context as possible though. Okay, anyway, BIG APOLOGY if this kind of info/issue has been posted elsewhere. I looked for a good while before posting. Mostly found LT FAQs, and whether you should/shouldn't(doesn't count if it came LT'd right?). Just hoping for some help or guidance in the right direction. LT and budget don't go hand in hand, I'm aware, but that's what I'm on and it's my daily. Hoping I can get away with something fairly simple. I've got a shock rebuild to look forward to now, so lemme know what else I gotta add to my plate please! And thank you!

 

How are those even mounted in the front? Photos of the coilover bucket up front please. Specifically the upper coilover mount.

 

They're just standard coilover bucket mounts, no spacer or anything. Swapped em over from the swayaways.

Looks like these

 

Interesting, never even knew those existed. So are you saying at full droop the coil spring is no longer preloaded?

 

Correct. This is about as far down as I can preload to keep the CVs from being at the more intense angle where they're almost making contact with the Lca/popping the clamps off. I wanna say the collars are down a little over 1.5"


With that much I feel like I'm just getting by without risking everything doing what it's been doing. Any less preload and I start to get shock weep. But, when I jack the vehicle up and get full droop, the coil separates from the top preload collar, and wobbles around freely, on both sides like this.


If I move the collar down just to close that gap, and take up slop, my CVs boot ribs are really close to the Lca's, and eventually pop off the outer CV, as well as the axle shaft being pretty close to the lower shock mount. It all clears, but just barely. At first I thought maybe as long as there was clearance I was fine, but looking at other LT builds I'm noticing their cvs have a good inch or two of clearance from the Lca's. That and Id have no real useable down travel at that point with the way it was set.


At this point I'm just a bit confused. I can't imagine I need heavier springs. 600 with no weight in the front seems reasonable enough to maintain a decent lift and still be soft enough to eat bumps without having to fully flex out, but either way the spring length having that gap I know can't be normal.

 

You need some .5" washers between the spindle adapter and spindle. A lot of kits use them. It would increase clearance between the CV boot and LCA and slightly help your preload amount on the coil.

 

I'm no long travel guru by any means but a longer spring would solve the slop issue. Are you sure that's a 16" coil spring. Posting in the long travel thread might gain you more traction in the right direction

Edit: just seen the part number on your spring. It is indeed a 16" spring.

 

See below:

 

Don't quote me but I believe 3" of droop is about the minimum you want when setting ride height. As of right now you have negative preload and you want about 1"‐2" of preload

 

Oh man you have no idea how much of a relief that is, thank you! Way more simple than anything I was ready to do, didn't know that was an option. I'd imagine longer spindle bolts are needed with that, is there a specific spacer kit sold for this, or did yours come with those?

Thank you again!


Edit: Just had a realization, I'll probably need different wheels to make that work huh? Looking back at how far my wheel sits in. That or wheel spacers for the time being maybe?

 

Yea I was thinking of posting in one of those, but some of em were showing last activity like a year ago, didn't know if they were dead threads or not lol. But have a few other questions I'll probably toss in there so I'm not cluttering up general discussion. Still kinda learning how to use the forum right lmao.

This was my understanding as well, the same thing applied to my ext travel set up, that's why I was trippin on how bad my setup is handling any preload.

Thanks for the info!

 

The position of the adjustment collar itself is not preload. Preload is compressing of the coil. Setting the collar so it snugs up to the coil but doesn’t compress is essentially zero preload.

 

Right right. But my issue is even at 0 preload, where it's just snugged up I'm having cv clearance issues. Which is why I'm having it at negative load just to get by at the moment. That's what's making me wonder if my CO's are too long or what's going on with this kit being +1 or +2. When I had these initially set I did have the collars spun down to actually preload the coils, not a ridiculous amount, just to get a level ride height with the back, but that's where I was having a lot of issues.

 

Yeah I'd say look into those spacers posted above and some longer springs. 18" might put you in the money. That's the only input I have. Probably not the right fix but

 

The distance between the top of the collar and the bucket is ‘dead space’… yes, the overall length of the assembly changes the ‘arc’ of articulation, but you could just as well have a rock stuffed between the top of the collar and the bottom of the bucket.


You need longer springs.

 

Made up some spacers today. CV clears the LCA now, but as I suspected, the LCA does not clear the wheel now. Have some wheel spacers coming in hopefully tomorrow that will take care of that.

Bolts are M16 x 1.5 x 2.5"L Class 10.9.
Nuts are just some 1.5" M18s. Went bigger than M16 so they don't thread and interfere.

With the preload collar now snugged up, this is how it sits under vehicle weight. Truck did not gain or lose any ride height, still sitting pretty low though, which to be fair, I expected would happen. CV angles still look kinda bad, like the front end is still flexed out. Even the UCA looks like it's on a flex. Idk how else I would straighten them up without dropping the front end. But then I'm back to square 1 still. Idk what do you guys think?





Also

CV shaft is now making contact with the coil and perch. Kinda figured something like that would happen. I do have some kings rod ends that are 2" longer than regular that I'd previously bought thinking they would move the spring upwards. Only realized I was just reducing my stroke length after I bought them of course. Wondering if they'd work now or if I should try the 1" option longer instead? Either way I know I'm still reducing my stroke length, but now with the spacers it probably wouldn't be as dramatic.



Still wondering if the shock is too long, or if the axle is too long or something. Just seems like something isn't matched up right. But at this point I just need everything to clear until I can figure that out. And hopefully not blow anymore CV boots in the process. Still need to reboot one tomorrow and get a full length measurement.

 

Okay I think I understand. My only concern with that is, with a longer spring all I'm really doing is like you said, taking up that dead space. The coil would still effectively be at 0 preload, like my current one right? So wouldn't that leave me still just as flexed out as I am currently or am I misunderstanding?

In that case would I need to get a longer and softer spring? I was under the impression 600lb was a good middle ground for no weight up front, it certainly doesn't feel to stiff going over bumps or anything, at 0 preload anyway. But at that point, doesn't that just mean I'll sag more? Im still having a hard time figuring out why in order for my CVs to be at a more appropriate angle, I have to have the suspension so low. But in doing that, I lose most of my up travel stroke and start weeping.

 

is it possible that you have a 2wd lift kit that was force-fit to your 4x4?

 

I honestly wouldn't know. The Previous owner had no clue about any of the set up. I was under the impression that LT kits were marketed for both 2wd/4wd. Camburgs at least when I checked their stuff. When I stopped by camburg the dude didn't say anything about it being an improper kit.

The only thing he said was that it looked like one of their +1 LT kits that someone had modified to be a uniball LBJ. Up until that point I'd never heard of a +1 kit. Guess is as good as mine tbh.

 

Okay, I THINK I'm making some kind of progress .

This is how it sits with all the additions vs how it is without.


Rebooted the CV again, I need to order better clamps the ones I had laying around are trash. The axle end to end measures just over 31" roughly. Anyone know the length of +2LT CVs?

(This is before I rebooted the outer, that's why it's messy)

I took the coilover out, I think I found why I'm getting shock weep with the shorter stroke. There's a few deepish pits towards the lower end of the shaft, looks like a good sized rock got in there or something, I have no clue how. Sucks, but at least hopefully that means my seals aren't blown from over compression like I thought. Hopefully FOA can ship out a shaft quick. Unfortunately I'm going to have to ride it dirty like that in the meantime so probably grab some new seals anyway.
With that said, I put the King 2" longer rod end on, much better CV clearance with coil and bucket. With the +2 rod end, at full droop, the coil goes pretty much all the way up to the top of the coilovers(loosely), which is good, now I can actually properly preload it. I have about maybe just slightly under an 1" preloaded now. I know with the lower end I'm losing stroke length. Hoping it's not a lot I can't do the math off the top of my head rn. Didn't torque it down much further because I wanted to check clearances and now it's dark lol. But when the suspension is drooped I can still fairly easily spin the collar which means I still have some wiggle room. Hoping for the best.

(Kings springs, king lowers. I feel like a fraud)

With everything on, including the wheel spacers, everything clears finally. But still some sketchy stuff.

With the LCA now clearing the wheel thanks to the wheel spacers, I'm noticing it's still kind of close to the tire. Not an issue as long as the tire is full, but when aired down, MAYBE could make contact. Idk. Would probably have to be super low like 10psi. I don't go down past 20 on OEM wheels anyway so I should be fine...right?



Lastly, the inner CV boot is all bunched up on itself still, even though the angle seems a hell of a lot more reasonable than. Before. I have the clamp area in the right spot on the axle shaft so I'm not really sure what to make of it other than the possibility of the axle is too long. It feels like the tripod barely has any wiggle room to go into the cup further when on the vehicle. That can't be right. Simple fix I'll probably just stretch the boot, but I can see it being an issue down the line with tolerances inside the CV itself.



EITHER WAY, at least I have some goddamn clearance now.