Anyone Upgrade from 3G to 2G? Or even 1G? A Friday Thread

Well, I’ve about had it. Great looking truck, very capable, but god do I hate how it drives. Yes, I have tuned, not once but twice. Helped a lot, but, this just isn’t for me I don’t think. So let’s have a mature, civilized discourse on this sort of transition! Anyone dunnit?



Obviously, less refined, lower MPG, worse headlights, less safety…more payload, more torque, cheaper insurance, less new car anxiety. Really my main concern is what it’s like to keep ‘em alive and reliable. Especially with 1G, my primary concern is parts availability and/or quality (outside of finding one that hasn’t already dissolved but that’s what the southwest exists for, amongst other things).

Oh, and I guess I shouldn’t rule out a 4.7 Tundy..

 

I bought my now ex-1Gen 2004 Taco Xtra Cab when my '92 Chev was totaled. I needed something quick and was thinking of fuel economy because at the time my work commute was about 60 miles/day. So I went with the 2WD. If I had ponied up and bought a 4WD I'm pretty sure I'd still be driving a 1Gen. The 2004 was totally solid when I bought my '20 and whoever got my '04 got a great truck.

 

I went from a 1st gen to 2nd mainly for the airbags. I was in Wyoming in the 1st gen with my new girlfriend at the time and saw a bad accident. I already know at that early part of the relationship that I wanted to protect her more. Two measly airbags in the 1st gen wasn’t enough, so I limited my search to a 2009-2015 with the side curtains.

I ended up with a 2015 supercharged that has needed next to nothing on maintenance outside of regular oil , air filter cleanings, and greasing the driveshafts. The 1st gen with 265k miles was very reliable, but was showing age where a lot of the rubber bushings and such were in need of refreshing.

 

My first Tacoma was a 3rd gen. (2017) It was totaled about a year after I got it. While searching for a replacement, I drove a couple of 2nd gens. I realized I actually preferred the 2nd gen. The ride and handling were pretty much the same, but I did like the 4.0 better. Definitely sacrificed some tech and some creature comforts which were nice, but honestly If I was shopping for tech and comfort, I probably wouldn’t be shopping Toyota mid size trucks. So like most, I wouldn’t consider it an “upgrade”. Years ago I had a 1990 Toyota pickup that I loved but that was obviously pre-Tacoma.

 

That’s a good point about safety. My plans would be very different if I were unattached, would be 1st gen all the way. Good to know about the curtain airbag years though, but I think I was tentatively planning on seeking out the 2.5G anyway (‘12+?).

A coworker has a 2G Sport. Earlier this year we had to go off site for something and he drove. While he was talking about how jealous he was of my shiny new Taco, I was sitting there thinking..aesthetics aside, I might actually like this better..

 

i honestly don't see a benefit of the 3rd gen over the 2.5gen, other than some minor aesthetics and motor size, the rest of the main mechanicals and interior stuff are all really most of the same

 

That’s another perk of 2nd gen, a lot of maintenance stuff is probably going to be available for quite some time. I’ve had bad experiences trying to keep some older vehicles alive and reliable simply because replacement part quality is in the toilet (and this was pre-2020).

 

I’ve had both. I like how my 3rd Gen looks, I like the interior design much better, my 2Gen was a better truck. There, I’ve said it.

 

I also really, really like the interior and will miss it if I jump ship. I also like it’s all black, looks like 2G means I will have at least a half light tan/grey interior to show off my dog’s various accentuations..

Actually on that note, will 3G seat covers fit 2G? Pretty happy a lot of my 3G stuff can be moved over which would remove some of the sting. If the covers fit, I think I can re-use everything except for stuff the 2G doesn’t need anyway (2LO and Anytime Locker..).

 

Genuinely curious, what exactly do you hate?

For me it took a while to get used to DBW throttle. Also, the clutch accumulator was screwing with me until I removed it. Otherwise I have no real complaints. Fuel economy could be a bit better but I modified my truck so that’s on me haha

I’m running premium SFOB on 94 E0 chevron and IMO it drives very nice. I do tow a 6x12 enclosed single axle and it does fine, MPGs are trash though as expected. Lots of hills here too.



I would looooooove to get a nice 1st gen as a back up/bush/camping/fishing truck but that’s just not gonna happen. Don’t have the $$$, I’ve got other priorities right now.

 

I am looking for a torquey low end truck motor. One is cheaper.

Co worker used to have new 16-23 said it was like $37k $700/mo no mods. Why. They do not get these right from the factory. Not even LC70 which is close. It’s not that.
He got tired of that and got a mechanic special decent car for cheap.

compared to everything else there is
Why.
Because it has a black headliner? Not needed. I can make mine black.

if anything am curious about 2G vs 1G.
2G seems to have more following, more aftermarket parts, more power, more room. With current prices 1G doesn’t look tempting. If I ever made a switch it will be to a V8 that has more power and probably better MPG because it’s not struggling as much, and less need for as short of a gear ratio. Plenty of things with a V8.

 

It’s the DBW I think, plus how I just want a vehicle to drive. It’s been a year and a half, 18k miles, and we just aren’t on the same page. I have had other DBW manuals that I had zero complaints about, but they were older (one of which being a track toy - probably revealing a bit about my taste in controls).

I think it must be whatever strategy they have to program in for emissions. Rev hang, no engine braking, and the throttle seeming to keep on going even as I roll off the throttle at higher RPM..always just feels a split second behind me…and apparently, it drives me up the freaking wall when the mood strikes to turn off grandpa mode.

From a sense of the usual torque complaints, the tunes did get me to a point where I was happy enough in that aspect at least. I could keep throwing money at it, or keep waiting to get used to it, but I feel like this slips in to sunk cost/bad money after good and just fighting the nature of it.

“It’s a truck, not a 911!”

Having formerly been the steward of one, yeah, it’s most definitely not. But I have ripped around in Jeeps, a couple full size domestics, and probably the most hilarious to think about heel-toeing in an air cooled Westfalia; these were all “slow car fast” type fun experiences. I am still a little dumbfounded I am this unhappy, but it is what it is I guess.

 

It’s my first DBW vehicle so my rev match downshifts are perfect like 70% of the time. On my 2007 ranger it was so easy to rev match perfectly pretty much every time. Clutch also seemed to be more forgiving on the ranger.

The lack of engine braking I have noticed too. It’s there but I wish there was more. I tow a lot lately so I’m starting to notice it more and more. Although my single axle 1400# dry weigh trailer got brakes so it makes a world of a difference. No issues with torque, my tach barely crosses the 3k mark, even when towing.

I was actually completely fine power wise on stock tune, it was that inconsistent throttle response that was annoying me a bit. Tune almost fixed that. It’s consistent most of the time but not 100% of the time.

I will say this is the most “picky” MT vehicle. You gotta be absolutely perfect shifting gears and with your footwork for that “AT smooth” driving experience. I do enjoy a bit of a challenge though, keeps me on my toes, just how I like it I would honestly say that 95% of the time I really enjoy driving my truck. It does everything I ask it to.

I wish you luck finding a vehicle you truly enjoy driving my friend.

 

Had a 1G but it was totaled after I got rear-ended so I needed a new Tacoma. Skipped the 2G and went straight to a 3G. (I have a neighbor with a 2015 and it's a great truck, I just liked the 3.5G more) Love my 3G, except for my crappy gas mileage ( I do have a m/t with shorter diff gears over the auto though so my driving experience is different). Even though the 1G and 3G both carry the Tacoma badge, they are vastly different trucks. I was shocked how big my 3G was by comparison (kinda like driving a F150 from the late 90s early 2000's. Even the 2G is a vastly larger truck over the 1G). Now, if you're going to a 1G, that things gonna feel SMALL. By comparison, it's a narrow truck and the seating position in my 1G was very similar to that of a sedan (as in your butt is on the floor and your legs are splayed out in front of you). People who complain about the seating position in the 3G, I'm like "You have no idea." LOL.

2wd 99 single cab (2.4L 5m/t). Loved that truck. At 23 years and 275,000 miles it was definitely showing it's age. However, in 18 years of ownership (got it in 04) the only "major" repairs were a throttle body sensor and a radiator. I still love that truck, but after having my 3G, I wouldn't want to go back except for nostalgia sake.

My opinion is that the 1G, 2G, and 3G are all great trucks, but the 2G was a major improvement over the 1G. The 3G (and please don't flame me) was an improvement over the 2G, but not so much as the 2G over the 1G.

Sorry this is rambly, but it's a Monday.

 

This hit close to home. I had an ‘87 F-250 as a tinker toy/work truck when I first got the Tacoma. When I had them parked side by side, my jaw hit the ground…they’re the same size, I think within an inch or two. So much for my modestly sized pickup..at least it feels small inside?

 

I told my brother my 3G was just a little bit shorter than my '92 3/4 ton Reg Cab LB Chevy and he couldn't believe it until he saw them parked SxS in the driveway.

 

When I was shopping for a tacoma and test drove both, I preferred the 2nd gen engine/tranny combo over the 3rd gen. It was just a bonus that 2nd gens were almost $10k cheaper.

 

I lucked into a 2013 in minty shape, it is a wonderful truck. I’m not a big fan of tech, and the extent of it on the 2013 is the ludicrous backup camera display in the mirror.

 

A local seedy dealer took in a ‘09 ACLB, 4 cyl 5 speed with a lot of rust and even more miles. Timberland green on tan, sharp truck. I went to go check it out, more just to compare. Not a ton of Tacomas in my locale, so I have to check out what I can more so than specifically what I want (definitely not going to buy a local truck either way).

I thought it was a joke or friendlyish rivalry but……2nd gen may actually be best gen. I didn’t notice it was 4 cyl until I drove it. Gutless? Well, yeah. But it has enough low end grunt (or a heavy flywheel) and…it just drives like a little truck. Slower, but still better. The 4.0, I am guessing will be pretty nice.

The seats were more comfortable - which is funny given the age/use. The early 2G upholstery is wonderful, the bug scrubber and gym shorts material on the 2.5G, not quite my favorite either. Surprised at how tight everything felt still, nowhere near the creaky rattletrap I expected. Materials feel durable and seem like they’ll be easier to keep clean relative to the more aggressive texture on 3G. Styling and textures are eerily similar to my 2G Forester.

This one I don’t get - unless it’s an issue with the steering wheel itself (older design than the Dough-Boy/Magneto helmet looking one from ‘12-23), but my knee doesn’t knock in to the steering wheel when releasing the clutch. I don’t have to kick my leg out to the side. That is huuuge! And why is no one else bitching about this? Do I just have freakishly long legs even though they’re freakishly average? Is there something wrong with this one?

Odd thing to notice - how cheap the drive selector feels on the 3G compared to 2G. I mean it’s not like it was like turning the latch on a vault, but the 3G knob may very well be the shoddiest part of the truck. Feels like I am going to crack it off or it’s going to just fall out every time I switch it.

So I think this will be a great move for me. Now my struggle will be if I want to find a “cheap” one from the south with a lot of miles or spend what doesn’t sound like that much more (in a relative sense) for something creampuffy. And if I actually want a stick again. And if I can convince myself, my pup and my wife that not getting a double cab won’t be that big of a deal..

 

Haven’t seen this thread until now. It’s interesting that your dislike from the truck has actually brought you to the point of wanting to ditch it. And I totally get it. I’ve said it plenty of times but this is the most underwhelming engine I have ever had the pleasure (or displeasure?) of driving.

I am absolutely itching to go try a 4th gen in hopes that it would solve all my complaints. Even with the higher cost. I don’t want a 2nd gen because of the problems the 6 speeds on those have with the aluminum quill that is not replaceable. If it weren’t for that, I’d probably entertain the idea of a 2G, despite liking literally everything about the 3G better other than the motor.

It’s hard to put into words what I don’t like about the 3.5L, but plain and simple I think “power delivery” sums it up. Many folks will tell you the tune “makes it drive like it should,” but I have not found that to be the case, from any tune from any vendor. They can add some subjective improvements, but in about 30 seconds of driving I can point out multiple flaws that I don’t like that constantly remind me how this engine is still completely unlike everything else I’ve ever driven.

I don’t think it’s directly DBW, because I’ve driven plenty of other DBW vehicles that are way better than this. I do think, it is the DBW though, or better, the way Toyota programmed the DBW. My only theory is Toyota wanted to be super conservative with preventing lugging. So they program it in a way that, ironically, makes the motor feel like it’s lugging, but in reality it’s protecting itself from you lugging it. And I don’t want to lug it, I just want to drive it normally and not feel like it’s a slug. The low speed 2nd gear stuff by far bugs me the most.

I have gone back and forth on whether or not I want to trade for a 4th gen, or keep the 3G 2-3 more years and then add a 4th gen to the collection and keep the 3G to burn miles on. I wouldn’t be that sad to see the 3G go, but I’ve put a bunch of work and money into it. Parting it out is something I dread, although I would do that rather than sell it modded. I dunno, I like the truck overall and for now just accept the drivability as “it is what it is,” hence why it’s still with me. I really want something more fun though and I think the 4G would do it. It’s just a lot of money, a lot of effort to part out the 3G, and I don’t want to be a 4G guinea pig. Ugh. At least if I decide to ditch the 3rd gen, I could cancel my RC60F transmission order…..

Hope you can find something you like better! I was honestly super happy with how my manual Frontier drove. It truly drove how it should. The problem with it (and my previous automatic frontier that I didn’t like) was that they both suffered severely from poor build quality. Both were 2019s, and I think Nissan had given up by then. Other than timing chain problems and radiator problems (auto only for radiator issue), the earlier years were better. I still would like to add a cheap early Xterra or Frontier to my collection. Those are truly fun to drive. 6 speed and lots of torque for a V6. Way better than the 3.5 and they came out 20 years ago.