JBL upgrade journey

I started my JBL upgrade journey by replacing all of the factory speakers (leaving everything else factory):
Dash: JBL GX328 3 1/2
Front doors: Kicker 46CSC6934 6x9
Rear doors: Kicker 46CSC674 6 3/4
Sub: Skar VD-8


I then used the PAC wiring harness (PAC APH-TY01)
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_541APHTY01/PAC-APH-TY01-AmpPRO-Harness.html
to get high level inputs for two Kicker Key amps (4ch 200 and mono 500). Still using factory wiring with each channel divided as per factory head unit. SQ was better, volume was better, but no where near acceptable. Frequency management by the head unit was very bad.

So… I started over. …

Wiring:
Independent new speaker leads to each location (16ga)
4ga main power lead from battery
150a circuit breaker at battery
150a fuse at rear wall of cab
Fused distribution block
4ga to power and ground Alpine amp
8ga to power and ground each Kicker amp
4/8ga to 4ga distribution block for ground


Behind head unit:

PAC AP14
JL audio RCA patch cable
Remote turn-on lead
SOS lead


Front channels:
Kicker key 200: high pass to JBL GX328 (3 1/2” coax) $69 ( amazing!)

Kicker key 200: low pass to Kicker 46CSC6934 6x9 3-way $100 (impressive volume, slightly hollow midrange)


Rear channels:
Alpine R2-A60F (150wpc@ 2ohm x 4) only using ch 3+4 in band-pass 80hz-2000 hz: EVL-65 D4 (Dual 4 ohm VC) in rear doors parallel 2 ohm.


Sub channels:
Kicker key 500: Skar VD-8 (8” dual 4-ohm VC in factory enclosure) $75 (amazing) with polyfill


Tried in rear doors:
Kicker 46CSC674 CS Series 6-3/4" 2-way $90 (not bad, may sell)
DS18 PRO-HY8.4 MSL (Meh) (in rear doors)
CT Sounds Bio 8 (in rear doors) (better than DS18s, may sell)

May sell kicker key 200 and add 2nd Alpine (6-ch) and DSP/ACTIVE CROSSOVER. This would be to change front sound stage to active 3-Way setup. This will nearly double my investment, so it may take a minute to convince myself.

Key amps under rear seat. Alpine amp under passenger seat. Required seat to be raised 1/2” to clear amp.
While they are great bang-for-buck for low frequency, I haven’t been impressed with Skar products above 2000 hz.

Considering
Audiofrog 3-way for front speakers with custom sail panel for tweeters
JBL stadium series 3” mid in dash and tweeters on sails.
Morel 3 way
Audison
Removing factory sub enclosure and changing to a 10” or dual 8’s in a prefab or custom enclosure.

Thank you to all that have helped with guidance/experience so far!
Current system is WORLDS better than factory JBL! (and completely factory looking)

 

We're you able to drop in the sub in the original jbl sub box. how much did you had to cut?

 

Yes, minor trimming of support webbing on inside of enclosure at top arch of driver.

 

@soundman98

Goddam GOAT

 

generally, i prefer to avoid 3-way setups in vehicles, mostly because it's far increased cost, but also increased complexity with an additional point source to align. for the most part, 3-way setups really only tend to add additional midrange presence. bass and treble is going to be mostly identical to any 2-way setup. it really comes down to the enclosure behind the midranges on how well they work.

what are you looking to achieve? or put another way, what have the speakers been lacking so far?

 

I'm gonna save, read, and reread this thread multiple times. To learn and understand what you did. Thanks!

 

Nice, this is helpful. You should post in here the other USB C additions you made (just saw them in the "What did you do today" post). These are changes I think many people are interested in.

I have the JBL setup and am not happy with the sound quality. I want to keep the factory head unit and am trying to understand the path of least resistance. I'm not sure where to start. It sounds like speakers alone is not good enough, but then you can go down a rabbit hole afterwards.

 

Don’t hesitate to message me… (Or ask here) happy to help.

 

Speakers alone are the best bang-for-buck first step. First step would be replacing the dash speakers. The imaging/soundstage is so much better. I really like the ones I used, but plan on upgrading.

For the best/most noticeable improvement per dollar, I would probably follow this path if you couldn’t spend $500+ at a time. Each step can be accomplished by the lower cost number listed)

Dash speakers (<$100-250)
Sound deadening (Doors and back wall first) ($100-200)
Front door speakers ($100-500)
Sub ($100-300)
AP4 or DSR-1 ( to get low level inputs for amps) ($350)
Amplification 4-7 channels ($250-1500)
Rear door speakers (<$100)
Amplification (remainder or channels) ($500-1500)
DSP ($300-1500)

 

Currently missing vocal clarity and airy/ambience. (Think: hearing Howard jones taking breaths in “No one is to blame”). Currently using the self tuning feature on the key 200 to bi-amp the JBL 3 1/2’s in the dash and the Kicker 6x9’s in the door. May be able to use active crossover DSP to tune front channels for similar effect. Also would like to improve imaging/brightness (capability) by using tweeters well-aimed from sail panels.

Bottom end of the kicker 6x9’s are impressive! I would hate to lose that, so would only replace with a 6 1/2 or 8” sub/mid-bass in the front doors.

 

Okay, this is a great place to start. I would be happy with just speakers, but someone said because of the difference in resistance (4-5ohms vs 3ohm factory speakers) that the replacement speakers would be very quiet and lacking power. Is that true?

By dash speakers you are talking about JBL GT302? Are they a plug-and-play replacement?

 

Complete replacement with the speakers I listed put my maximum volume in the high 70dB range (not loud enough). Just replacing the dash speakers should give the imaging while other factory locations should maintain total volume.

The GT302s are pretty good. Slight trimming of mount is required to fit them. They fit beneath the grille/speaker cover though.
I tried the tweeters everyone raves about and was disappointed.

 

I'm having a hard time finding that model number. Can you confirm whether it's the

$70 GX328 3-1/2" Coaxial Car Audio Loudspeakers

GX328 or

$70 GX302 3-1/2" 75W 2-Way GX Series Coaxial Car Audio Loudspeakers

GX302 that you used?

 

Apologies for the typo!

GX328 (on Amazon as GX302 for some reason)

JBL GX302 3-1/2" 75W 2-Way GX Series Coaxial Car Audio Loudspeakers

$70 JBL GX302 3-1/2" 75W 2-Way GX Series Coaxial Car Audio Loudspeakers

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O8MNNT6

 

Do they need a special crossover or just a standard harness?

 

The factory frequency management worked well for me until I bi-amped them with the high-pass of the key 200

 

Great info here. Getting read to change doors to Hertz Cento's .
Using theses in the dash.
And installing a RF 750-5 channel amp.

 

this is a difficult situation with the stock system. i suspect that some of it is going be the factory filtering/eq setup that might be limiting some of the output. i would first recommend considering adding an a device similar to jl's FiX processor to the amps you already have. the goal would be to intercept the factory audio signal, balance it, and then output that now-clean signal to your amps. that would be a good first step-- the old adage is "garbage in = garbage out" if you're starting with a crap signal, no matter how much is dumped into the speakers, you're still ending up with a crap signal.

the PAC was a good start, but doesn't adjust the signal, it only provides a low level signal to the amps, it's just not enough by itself.


after you get the input sorted, then it's the speakers...

honestly, most of the speakers you've tried so far have been on the lower end of the market, so as you found, they tend to hit the main parts, but drop off quickly for the real detailed stuff. for car audio, you're generally going to be looking into the $400+ range for a component set. though i've found that much of the car audio gear is focused on 'leveling up' so to speak, where the audio quality is directly related to how much one spends. it's really easy to go from what you have to considering spending thousands on speakers, i've been there. which is how i started looking outside car audio for speakers--they all work off the same fundamentals, it's just a matter of matching up specs appropriately...

the high end airy-ness that you're looking for should definitely be possible with a 2-way setup, just need som careful component selection. a higher end tweeter should have some better finesse to it. a metal dome is going to typically have more 'sizzle', where a soft dome is generally going to be more airy, and nuanced on the high end. there's also ring-radiator tweeters that are more like a combination of soft dome and semi-dome tweeters, but built to a higher standard than the semi-domes that you're running now.

once you can control the frequencies going into your amps, you can further the bi-amp setup you've already got going by running a dedicated tweeter and door midrange.

for something worth trying on the cheap, i like and use these in my truck:

$31 Zerone 1 Pair 2" 4Ohm 30W Silk/Polymer Composite Dome Tweeters Treble Speaker HiFi Stereo Heavy Bass Car Loudspeakers

https://www.amazon.com/Zer-one-Composite-Tweeters-Loudspeakers/dp/B07W4TX6V6/

they're a knock-off of the far more expensive peerless/seas ring radiator design, with similar acoustic traits, with lesser power handling.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...004/602200-illuminator-ring-radiator-tweeter/


door woofers are a little more difficult-- bass and midrange presence tend to be an either/or situation. generally, the subwoofer should be picking up the bass response, and the door woofers should be able to better focus on the midrange stuff. normally, 6-1/2" drivers are going to be easier to shop for this, as it's a more common size. 6x9 is slightly more specialized, and some argue that the unequal dimensions of the cone can create undesirable cancelations..

i'm running a different version of this one. the main considerations were that it had a copper shorting ring in the motor, which helps with 3rd order harmonics, which tends to translate to better-than-average bass response, and overall tone.
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-835025-6-1-2-Aluminum-Cone-HDS-Woofer-264-1086?quantity=1

 

I am going to try to get to the “low-country” of SC in the next couple of weeks for some ear shopping (Audison, Morel, JL, Audiofrog, and whatever else I can find).

I also thought the “Key” feature of the kicker key amps would resolve more of the garbage in.

I have been studying the JL Fix, Audio Control DM-810, and audison Bit.ten or Bit Nove.

The 6.5 component sets I have see are $500+. (JL C7, etc)

Thank you for the input/perspective!