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2000 Tacoma 2.7L Cranks and Dies: Please Help

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by Tacoman 2000, Jan 9, 2025.

  1. Jan 9, 2025 at 10:05 AM
    #1
    Tacoman 2000

    Tacoman 2000 [OP] Member

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    Icon Stage 4 Suspension LCE Headers and Exhaust K&N Intake
    Hello all,

    This post will be lengthy but I think all of the info is relevant. I will include all relevant information, symptoms, parts replaced, repairs etc.

    My truck is a 2000 Tacoma Prerunner 4x4 with the 3RZ 2.7L engine.

    Fall of 2022 I started to get a CEL as well as a rough start and idle as well as terrible fuel mileage. I was pretty sure at this time that the truck had a pretty bad exhaust leak as well. Reading the CEL produced a P0300, P0301, and P0303.

    Work completed: I replaced the plugs and wires with NGK platinum, and the coils with Hitachi because I could not find OEM Denso. MAF Cleaned with no noticeable difference.

    The CEL remained even after clearing the codes, the truck still had misfires, a rough idle and poor fuel economy.

    Work Completed: In the spring and summer of 2023 I decided to replace the injectors and upgrade the exhaust and intake. I installed LCE Engineering straight tube headers, Magnaflow hi-flow cat and full 2.5" bolt on LCE exhaust with all new gaskets and a K&N intake. I mistakenly ordered Aisin pink top injectors thinking that they were correct for my engine and upon install I realized that they were a few millimeters too tall. I did not have time to wait to get my OEM injectors remanufactured so I completed the install with the pink tops. The fuel rail would not fully seat on the cylinder head but I torqued the fuel rail down as evenly as possible and monitored for leaks. I also thoroughly cleaned the throttle body while it was removed from the engine.

    The truck ran rich and the fuel mileage became even worse and the CEL remained. The misfires were not as noticeable but the truck would sporadically run very rough and stall at stop signs after 30+ minutes of driving.

    Work completed: I replaced the wires (with heavy gauge race type wires from LCE), coils and plugs (OEM copper replacement) and ended up going back to a second set of new NGK wires and NGK platinum plugs.

    Fall of 2024: The aforementioned issues still existed and a new fault appeared. After driving to work in the morning and parking the truck for most of the day, the truck would not start for 2-5 minutes. It would crank and not fire, cycling the ignition multiple times and fluttering the accelerator pedal would eventually get the truck to fire with a very rough start. All of these symptoms combined with similar information that I've gathered from posts on this forum led me to believe that the fuel pump may be failing or the filter was clogged as well as not having the appropriate injectors.

    Winter of 2024-25 all of the same issues and faults were still occurring so I decided to replace the injectors again with OEM. Through days of searching the internet I could not come up with a new set of OEM Denso (Short, fat, brown connector style) injectors, so I ordered a replacement set from TRQ. I installed those injectors and attempted to start the truck. After a few tries the truck would fire and die after a few seconds. Cycling the key to the off position and retrying would have the same results. Attempting to start after a stall with the key in the ON position would mostly result in long crank and weak-sputtering ignition and stall. At this point I was getting very frustrated and went full parts cannon on it.

    Work completed: OEM replacement (NAPA) IAC Valve installed- Same results. MAF cleaned again- Same results. OEM replacement (O'Reilly's) fuel filter installed- Initially leaked at return line, tightened and same result. Swap back to OEM brown top injectors- Same result. New Denso fuel pump and Delphi strainer installed- Fuel pump priming is now much more audible but same result. Swap back to TRQ replacement injectors- Same result. Fuel injection relay replaced and all fuses checked- Same result. I have checked the OBD2 codes and nothing is populating now, the codes were cleared due to many nights of negative battery lead being disconnected and I don't think the engine is running long enough to populate any new codes.

    I have read so many posts on these forums about the misfires, rough idle and now the crank and die issue and have done many of the same repairs that others have to solve this issue but it still persists.

    Currently I am waiting for fuel injector cups, injector gaskets to replace the original "injector insulator (lower gasket)", an OEM crank position sensor, OEM cam position sensor and OEM circuit opening relay to arrive to see if any of those parts will fix the issue but I am not hopeful. I feel like the misfires, random stalls, random hard starts and finally crank and die issues are all related and probably due to some ridiculous, small short somewhere in the engine control system wiring or a faulty ECM (I really hope its not that). I have also purchased the complete factory service manual collection (still waiting for them to arrive in order to start diagnosing further), power probe, power probe open circuit finder, compression tester, OBD2 reader and other tools to help in diagnosing the issue if it turns out to be a wiring issue.

    If anyone has any suggestion on where to go from here I am open to suggestions.

    Thanks,

    Cody
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2025
  2. Jan 9, 2025 at 12:12 PM
    #2
    ControlCar

    ControlCar My Moto: Help & Learn…period.

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    Clock Volt meter/LSPV Delete/Hyundai 16’s/FP gauge/after 9months of wrenching ZERO oil leaks
    tt.png

    you can scratch out #'s 1 and 2 "causes" from your work

    #3 un-metered air entering combustion chamber
    -spray chlorinated brake clean over V hoses/intake hoses/injectors
    -you mentioned injectors RR-d.....what about those injector cups? that brittle plastic can crack and let in un-metered air
    #4 doubtful if FP failing....if runs
    -what about the fuel pressure regulator?
    (fairly in-expensive and easy bench test vids online)
    #5 doubtful unless you have very high mileage
     
  3. Jan 9, 2025 at 12:18 PM
    #3
    Tacoman 2000

    Tacoman 2000 [OP] Member

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    Icon Stage 4 Suspension LCE Headers and Exhaust K&N Intake
    I was thinking about picking up a smoke machine for diagnosing the vacuum system so that's on the list. I forgot to mention that I ordered new cups and a new set of injector gaskets and o-rings (mainly the injector "insulator" gasket because the new injectors come with o-rings and upper gasket). They have yet to arrive but are also on the list to replace. I have not replaced the fuel pressure regulator but I will test it. The truck has 150,000 miles now.

    Thanks for the suggestions.
     
    Jimmyrace, MadNachos and ControlCar like this.
  4. Jan 9, 2025 at 12:38 PM
    #4
    ControlCar

    ControlCar My Moto: Help & Learn…period.

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    A firm that

    150k no way its #5 scratch that out
    keep everyone posted
     
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  5. Jan 18, 2025 at 10:50 AM
    #5
    Tacoman 2000

    Tacoman 2000 [OP] Member

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    Update to work completed: Crankshaft and Camshaft position sensor replaced with Denso OEM. Issue not resolved. Following the FSM troubleshooting tree for no crank (immediate stall), I checked the fuel pump operation by grounding pin (I think FC) to body ground, fuel pump works and there is pressure in the return hose. Then I checked the starter signal circuit and it was in spec. I checked the ECM power source circuit and it was in spec. Then I started checking the circuit opening relay and it seemed to be within spec except for one of the unpowered continuity checks. The FSM says to check for continuity between pin 3-5 and that was fine, the next check I think is between pin 1-2 and there should be continuity, my relay was ohming out around 127ohms. It does have continuity but it seems high.

    The next step is as follows:
    Check for open in harness and connector
    between EFI main relay and circuit opening
    relay, circuit opening relay and ECM. I very possibly may be reading this or the wiring diagram wrong but I don’t think that the EFI relay and the C/O relay share the same circuit at any point besides the ECM. With that being said, I rang out every wire from the EFI relay to its connectors all the way to the ECM and did the same for the C/O relay to its connectors under the drivers seat as well as to the fuel pump connector and the ECM, all wires rang out and had good continuity. The last step of this troubleshooting tree is replace the ECM and that reality is killing me because I cannot find a reputable replacement (only flagship one has my part number and not sure if they are good or not, internet says no).

    Latest: I found a new OEM Denso Circuit Open relay and installed it with no luck. She still starts and stalls after a couple seconds of revving. (I can hear the new relay clicking when turning the key over to start which is nice)
     
  6. Jan 20, 2025 at 2:25 PM
    #6
    ControlCar

    ControlCar My Moto: Help & Learn…period.

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    I’m assuming you have checked the #3 reason…unmetered air entering combustion chamber via cracked V hose/cracked injector cup

    if decided ECM the cause after your pin out tests performed, I would definitely crack open said ECM and look for any “weirdness” like burn marks

    I have never used
    But
    Have referred to some Honda friends to RM their obsolete ECM’s

    https://www.unitedradio.com/
     
  7. Jan 21, 2025 at 11:47 AM
    #7
    O'Silver_Taco

    O'Silver_Taco Well-Known Member

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    3rz to 2Rz bebuilt block and new heads
    Auto or manual?

    if its automatic order a salvage ecm..........if its manual....its gonna hurt
     
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  8. Jan 23, 2025 at 7:29 AM
    #8
    Mysman

    Mysman Member

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    First off, I am totally impressed with all you have done to try and tackle your issues. I am, at best an old shade tree mechanic, and having read through all your posts, I never saw if you had performed a simple compression test. One of the other responders to your posts alluded to possible vacuum leaks, which I think is really good advice, but I would add to those checks a compression test. Even if you’re not experiencing exhaust smoke or other symptoms from worn rings or burnt valves, oddball things could be occurring that allow unmetered gases to mess with you. I have heard, but never verified, that something as simple as cross-threaded spark plugs have the ability to create the most confounding problems to identify and a compression test is easy to do and tells you a lot. Just an old man’s two cents worth. Good Luck. You seem to have a lot on the ball.
     
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  9. Feb 12, 2025 at 10:57 AM
    #9
    Tacoman 2000

    Tacoman 2000 [OP] Member

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    Icon Stage 4 Suspension LCE Headers and Exhaust K&N Intake
    Thanks for the input everyone. I have been away for a month and am looking forward to getting back to work on the Tacoma in better weather. To answer some of the questions posed here, the truck has a manual transmission and salvage ECM’s are impossible to locate. I purchased a diagnostic smoke machine just before I left and that is going to be my next step in troubleshooting. I’m going to smoke the intake pre and post throttle body to look for leaks as well as the vacuum system. (I purchased a shop kit vacuum line set to replace all the original minus the large diameter lines). I am also going to replace the injector cups and all injector gaskets because that very well could be the source of unmetered air given that I replaced the injectors three times and probably wrecked the air tight seals.

    Reading others posts, and eliminating other possibilities through my own troubleshooting and parts replaced, the issue has to be one of the following possibilities:

    1: Unmetered air entering combustion chamber or vacuum leak.
    2: Faulty ECM
    3: Cracked head or burnt/broken valve
     
    MadNachos likes this.
  10. Feb 12, 2025 at 12:56 PM
    #10
    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    With your C/O bypass installed and the pump running all the time, will the truck start and run continuosly? If so the issue is either the crankshaft position sensor or the wiring between it and the PCM... will need an oscilliscope to verify this. Just because a part is new does not mean it is good.
     
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  11. Feb 12, 2025 at 2:59 PM
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    MadNachos

    MadNachos Well-Known Member

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    The smoker will probably reveal all. It's a diagnostic tool everyone should have. Have you to tried to run it with the MAP sensor disconnected?
     
  12. Feb 12, 2025 at 4:59 PM
    #12
    Tacoman 2000

    Tacoman 2000 [OP] Member

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    No, the truck will not stay running with the FC jump. I will look in the FSM about how to ring out the wires from the crank pos sensor to the ECM. (I replaced both the crank and cam position sensors with OEM Denso parts which didn’t resolve it). Yes I’ve tried starting with the MAF disconnected and the crank immediate stall still exists.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2025
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  13. Feb 12, 2025 at 6:03 PM
    #13
    JoeBro

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    Man oh man do I feel you. I've been fighting my friend's 95.5 since early December, and now I've installed a new engine (long block with the old engine's original components, injectors, distributor, plugs, wires, etc.) My thread is below. Skipping to the end, it finally started, but under a very wierd circumstance (#1 plug was out). Put the plug back in and it ran for a whole 5-7 mins to go thru a heat cycle. Hopefully the rings seated. I wish I knew the fix for starting it again. Boy do I wish I knew,...very depressing.

    Any Updates? (1995 3RZ-FE Cranks, No Start Diagnosis) | Tacoma World

    I'll be watching your story!
     
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  14. Jun 18, 2025 at 6:32 AM
    #14
    Tacoman 2000

    Tacoman 2000 [OP] Member

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    Update

    I removed the ECM from its case and inspected the circuitry, there doesn’t seem to be any damage at all. All capacitors look normal with no bulging and all solder/contact points are fine.

    Replace the fuel pressure regulator with OEM Denso. Issue not resolved.

    I replaced the fuel injector cups and installed new gaskets on the injectors to see if that was a possible cause of unmetered air entering the combustion chamber. Still dies immediately after cranking.

    I replaced the MAF sensor which did nothing to resolve the crank and stall issue.

    I used my new diagnostic smoke machine on the intake and found no major leaks.

    Still scratching my head.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2025
  15. Jun 18, 2025 at 6:49 AM
    #15
    0xDEADBEEF

    0xDEADBEEF Swaying to the Symphony of Destruction

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    Have you done a compression test? I think that would at least give you confidence that the head and valves are all sound

    Have the valve clearances been checked?
     
  16. Jun 18, 2025 at 7:33 AM
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    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    I am still thinking it is fuel pump related, have you checked the fuel pressure and volume?
     
  17. Jun 18, 2025 at 8:34 AM
    #17
    Tacoman 2000

    Tacoman 2000 [OP] Member

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    I have not done a compression test nor valve clearance checks yet. Those are on the list.

    I have checked the fuel return line for pressure by jumping the ECM FC pin to ground according to the factory service manual. I have not checked fuel pressure with a pressure gauge.

    The issues that my truck was having leading up to the crank immediate stall were as follows:
    CEL Random misfire codes. Cylinder 1&3 misfire codes. Loss of power, random stall (when stopping at lights or stop signs) followed by difficult to start after 30+ minutes of driving and finally difficulty starting (5+ minutes of cranking) after sitting for half a day. Now finally the crank immediate stall issue after replacing the injectors for OEM (non Denso/aisin) injectors.

    All of these symptoms have a commonality in troubleshooting in the FSM, Fuel pump control circuit. I have gone through this troubleshooting tree multiple times as well as starter signal circuit and ECM power source circuit. I guess I’ll pull out the old compression tester and fuel pressure tester kits.
     
  18. Jun 18, 2025 at 11:52 AM
    #18
    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    All of those codes can be caused by low fuel pressure. Testing at the fuel return line, where? Where the pressure regulator is or? You are going to have to test the fuel pump properly, it can become an issue finding the correct fittings etc. There is a possibility, albeit a small one that testing at the fuel pressure regulator fitting could give a false reading IF the injectors leak as it is at the end of the fuel rail, think flusing the toilet when someone is in the shower, the pressure and volume drop.
     
  19. Jun 18, 2025 at 3:51 PM
    #19
    ControlCar

    ControlCar My Moto: Help & Learn…period.

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    Don’t forget my post in January under causes
    #4 low FP

    some member suggested this in another thread
    Lil dangerous but I would have NP doing on a cold engine and lots of rags ready

    unhook one of your injectors
    Have a buddy crank engine
    Observe how much if any fuel sprays out of the “hanging” injector
     
  20. Jun 18, 2025 at 4:41 PM
    #20
    slater

    slater Well-Known Member

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    Im not impressed, at all...
    Hes upgrading parts, extensive work & money, headers, intake, etc...
    & has no idea if he has an internally hurt engine....
    Furthermore, continues to drive it with a misfire....

    Im sure your aftermarket cheap cats are toast at this point, meaning melted & restricted....
    Meaning F'd up from raw unburned fuel from the misfire causing severely high temps to your cheap cats, roaching them....
    Raw fuel will continue to burn in the hot exhaust & literally melt the "honey comb" catalyst material...

    Unbolt the y pipe & peel it back from the headers, see if it will start...
    Meaning, straight headers & unrestricted exhaust....

    Maybe you will get lucky & its related to low fuel pressure, & save your cats...
    But if its truly a misfire that youre actually can feel, doubtful...

    The crank & dies makes sense If cats plugged from ignoring the misfires..
    The cats get plugged & once the vehicle starts, the excessive backpressure chokes the engine out after it start & stalls cuz the cylinder is so choked-up you cant get oxogen / fresh air in the cylinder...

    Or, as stated, fuel pressure related....
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2025

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