Death Valley Off-Road Adventures

I think social media is bad for remote places like Death Valley. I fed @Scott B. question into my preferred AI chatbot and I agree very much with its answers on the differences between the two.

What is the difference between modern social media and internet forums?

Great question! While modern social media and traditional internet forums both facilitate online discussions, they have distinct differences in structure, purpose, and interaction styles.

Internet Forums

• Thread-Based Discussions: Forums are structured around specific topics, with users posting in threads that allow for in-depth conversations.
  
  
• Community-Oriented: Users typically join forums based on shared interests, creating a tighter-knit group dynamic.
  
  
• Long-Form Communication: Posts tend to be detailed and structured, fostering deeper discussions rather than quick reactions.
  
  
• Chronological Structure: Replies in threads usually follow a timeline, making conversations easier to follow without algorithmic interference.

Modern Social Media

• Algorithm-Driven Feeds: Content is distributed based on user preferences and engagement rather than purely chronological order.
  
  
• Casual & Fast-Paced: Posts are shorter and designed for instant consumption, with likes, shares, and comments serving as primary interactions.
  
  
• Broader Audience Reach: Social media connects users globally, whereas forums often have niche communities.
  
  
• Visual & Multimedia Integration: Platforms prioritize images, videos, and interactive content, often blending entertainment with discussion.

In essence, forums cultivate thoughtful discussions within smaller communities, while social media accelerates engagement across a wider audience with fast-moving, dynamic content.

 

I think the biggest issue for me is SM sites often place limits on reply length. The number of reels that leave you wondering is staggering--you almost cannot have a conversation about anything because attention spans are so short. Cake was a recent attempt to create traction in forum software market that was more like social media but long form. Didn't succeed, Interesting experiment. Dynamic, engaging but it lacked organization--and this is not the same as the Cake Software Platform.

 

I was very brief, and everyone is asking sensible questions. The starting point has to be what do we mean by "Social Media" and that's probably where the disconnect is happening between my view and most everyone else's. And if we use Google, we see there isn't a consistent definition of "Social Media", but there are a number of cases in which people make a distinction between "Social Media" and a "Forum" which is where I was coming from. But if I just say "TW isn't Social Media" then I can certainly see why people wouldn't agree.

Just so the discussion is easier to follow I will define:

Online Discussion Platform (ODP) - A platform for community discussion of a topic or area of interest primarily by community members interested in that topic. The existence of the platform is not based on a profit motive, though it may use ad revenue to pay hosting fees and there may be excess revenue beyond these costs. The platform does not algorithmically recommend or moderate content nor does it promote content with the intent of increasing revenue. The host and moderators are typically persons with a direct interest in the area of interest. Content creators are not financially compensated or otherwise rewarded for their content, the number of community members that read/rate/recommend their content, or the ad revenue that their content may generate for the platform host. Content is not favorably placed or promoted based on the particular content creators who create it, any user's content is equally visible as any other's. Typical "traditional Internet forums" or more ancient "mailing lists" are examples, TacomaWorld being one. In general the content is the primary focus, regardless of how few people might view it.

Social Media Platform (SMP) - A platform commercially owned and developed with a profit motive driven by increasing viewership to generate revenue through advertising and other partner relations. The platform uses algorithms to promote content specifically to increase ad revenue, increase the amount of time users stay on the platform, and reward content creators that generate the most views and revenue. The most promoted content comes from creators that are directly financially compensated both through the platform itself (ad revenue sharing) and external brand sponsors (product placement). Extremely large and expensive development teams continue to evolve the platform with the single overriding goal of increasing the number of users and the amount of time each user spends on the platform regardless of the actual content they view. In general having the maximum number of people view the content is the primary focus, regardless of the topic of the content.

Why do I say people make a "false equivalence" between them? Because it is very easy to fall into the trap of "well they are online communities and the community members create content that other members view, so really they are the same thing". That's obviously not true at all and it is just as misleading to saying "democracies and absolute monarchies are both successful forms of government so really they are the same thing". The intent and implementation of platforms drastically alters how their users and their content creators behave.

For reference, I have friends that work at FB (now Meta) and for multiple years the single overriding strategic goal for the entire company was simply: "Increase the amount of time FB users spend on FB by five minutes a day." And every possible means was deployed to try to achieve that goal - including using social psychology techniques to actively addict users to the platform.

I think once you read the above distinctions between the two it is almost immediately obvious how the two kinds of platforms differ and that your experiences of those differences in the real world are very easy to understand when viewed through the context of what are the platforms created and maintained for (i.e. what is the motivation for their existence).

I'll leave it at that, since I don't think much more needs to be said, but I'm more than happy to list the differences that are the direct consequences of those motivations if anyone has trouble getting to them themselves.

 

Damn, this has been a good discussion and I'm late to the party but here's my TLDR:

Social media is anything that uses an algo to keep you engaged. Tik Tok, X, Threads, Insta, Youtube all qualify.

Forums do not qualify since YOU choose what threads to look at not the algo.

While I really dig all the effort and typing some of you guys have put into these replies I like short and sweet. Mostly because I type slow as fuck. lol

 

That indeed is the heart of it! Nice and concise!

And one immediately derives most of the rest of the poison once you think through "but why would some use an algo to keep you engaged?"

 

To rehash an old quote. "If your not paying for the product, you are the product."

 

Doesn’t matter whether you pay or not. You are the product.

Back to forums. Sure, you can argue social engineering is not part of many forums. But that doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Ads, landing pages with articles, that’s maybe a less formal approach. Likes, definitely social engineering. A list of similar topics at the bottom of a page? And finally, every bot that crawls the sight is making it easier for people find the site.

I don’t think the line is as simple as we’d like it to be.

 

Saying there is a continuum does not at all change the fact that there are still easily distinguished extremes at each end of the continuum. A 130F day is a lot different from a 60F day even if there are a whole bunch of moderate days between those two things.

 

We're gonna have to disagree.

 

I think we probably actually 95% agree, but I'm just being pedantic!

Cheers!

 

This intelligent discussion is why the DV thread is one of the few on TW (along with one of the mountain bike threads) that I read regularly, even though I haven’t been to DV in over a year . My own internal algorithm steers me here. I removed both the FB and IG apps from my devices a few months ago and don’t really miss them. Though a few public agencies (CalTrans and in fact DVNP) do provide useful info there. I do kinda miss the old Usenet news groups though … I think I still have a printed-out copy of an overlanding article from rec.autos.4x4 from the 90’s.

 

So, I've been out exploring (Utah this time, too hot in DV for me these days), but the previous discussion resonates.

I just got through reading this book. It's focused on children, but I see the same thing with many adults these days (including my spouse). The hardest part about the book (for me), is that our kiddo splits time between two houses, and so there's only so much influence we can have at ours.

The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness



A pertinent quote, which I would argue applies to more than just young people (bold mine):

 

One of the other things about social media that bothers me is a poster can choose to limit who can reply and they can push the "sponsor" button and spray the world. And you cannot down vote content for many so views and likes only quantify success. Nothing measures failure.

 

I’m halfway through a novel called The Every, the sequel to The Circle, by Dave Eggers. Set sometime in the future and taking place in California, it’s about how a social media company, which also owns a thinly-disguised Amazon and Whole Foods, is monitoring and influencing and essentially dominating almost all private, corporate and government activity. Scary …

 

So a book about advertising?

 

This is another attempt to expand the drilling/mining project on Conglomerate Mesa, at the southern end of the Inyo, on the border with DVNP. Feedback link should you support this or not:

https://eplanning.blm.gov/eplanning-ui/project/2022050/510 > click on "Participate Now"

Here's a trip report that shows what this area is like, today: Worth More Than Gold | Inyo West #1

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BLM seeks input on proposed mineral exploration in Inyo County

The Bureau of Land Management is seeking public input on proposed exploratory drilling on approximately 13 acres of public lands within a 2,424-acre project area, south of Lone Pine in Inyo County. If approved, Mojave Precious Metals Inc. could search for mineral deposits, including gold, on public lands where they currently hold mining claims.

Mojave Precious Metals Inc. proposes to modify its existing, approved plan of operations to drill 120 exploratory bore holes at up to 30 locations. Proposed drilling would aim to gather data on known areas of minerals. The plan modification includes work such as access road reconstruction, drill pad and sump construction, and other related activities.

Project Description
Mojave Previous Metals (MPM) has submitted an amendment to their existing, approved Plan of Operations for mineral exploration which was approved in May 2018. The proposed Plan modification requests exploration access via overland travel which would disturb up to 15 acres at up to 30 locations with a total of 120 boreholes.

Prior to determining that an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) was necessary, the BLM had begun analysis of this project under an Environmental Assessment (EA). That draft EA remains accessible for historical purposes here: https://eplanning.blm.gov/eplanning-ui/project/2013863/510/

What's New
May 2, 2025: The Bureau of Land Management is seeking public input on the draft Environmental Impact Statement on a proposed exploratory drilling on BLM-managed public lands south of Lone Pine, in Inyo County. The proposed project will allow Mojave Precious Metals Inc. to search for mineral deposits, including gold, on public lands where they currently hold mining claims.The comment period will end on June 16, 2025. The public may comment through any of the following methods:

• Preferred: BLM ePlanning NEPA Register -- scroll to the top of this webpage and click the green Participate Now link on the left to comment.
• Email comments to BLM_CA_RI_MojavePMetals@blm.gov
• Mail or hand deliver comments in an envelope labeled “Mojave Precious Metals Exploratory Drilling Project EIS” to BLM Ridgecrest Field Office, 300 S. Richmond Rd., Ridgecrest, CA 93555

The Bureau of Land Management will hold one in-person public meeting on the date, time, and location listed below. BLM staff will be available during the meeting to discuss the alternatives and analysis and answer any questions.

In-person: Tuesday, June 10, from 5 – 7 p.m.
Location: Statham Town Hall, 138 N Jackson St., Lone Pine, CA 93545