Another alignment interpretation needed!

I recently posted a thread regarding how much lift was on this pick up after I got threw with it. I decided I was done and got an alignment at IronMan 4x4 which is partially owned by the local Beaverton Toyota. They had tremendous reviews. By the time I picked it up there was no one to talk to me about it or told me if they got it within any specs. Their receptionist told me that they tried as hard as they could and their toyota master tech spent alot of time on it. $180 !!

I recently replaced all steering components with new Toyota parts including the rack, all bushings were replaced, all ball joints new. Also installed JBA UCA's and EMU 882 springs, 5100 shocks with the lowest spring perch. New extended travel CV axles. New HD leaf springs in back with a trail gear progressive leaf pack. No spacers or blocks on this truck. After I was done it drove really straight which surprised me. Even better after the alignment but not sure if these number are reasonable. I thought I had a 3" lift from my previous post here but these guys are saying its closer to 5".

Any help from you alignment experts appreciated!

 

Looks like they made it worse.

 

It's not gonna drive great, the low caster makes for more work on the highway.

I'd rather see 1.6 caster and 0.6 camber, but their tech really pushed for zero camber.

Which specific JBA arms did you put in?

 

Worse?? Wowzers !
Got the JBA standard high caster UCA. Bought them in may 2022 and only installed them now.
Item # JBA-10.00 HCEZ. If it could not be done should they have warned me?

before they got started I told them everything I did and installed.

 

Ya those are good arms, but I see lots of alignment techs that don't understand how low 1 degree of caster is. They always want low camber for tire wear but neglect to see how much the caster affects the drive.

 

Yea I'd take that truck elsewhere and spring for another [proper] allignment.

 

There going to tell me the lift throws off the geometry too much. In my previous thread I think folks said it was 3” or abouts. Should they have been able to get better numbers?? Should I ask them to try again or if I bring it somewhere else what should I ask for with regards to the numbers? I guess I need to do some reading.

 

Thats a big lift, wasnt expecting that much, but the upper arm is flat.

Maybe take a pic of the lower arm eccentrics for giggles.

 

Not sure if these pics help! Let me know!

 

As @Bishop84 said you'll want more caster. Have you driven the truck at highway speeds yet since getting it back from the allignment shop? The steering is going to feel overly light with that little caster.

 

I have not! is it true that camber can be slightly negative and that will allow more caster? if so, I don’t know why they didn’t do that here. Especially at a dedicated 4 x 4 shop. Looks like they were shooting for perfect camber instead which I’ve heard is unnecessary?

especially since it appears to have been made worse and at the same time, I have a higher caster upper control arms. I don’t get it! I’m going to contact them and see if they can dial it in more

 

Yes, camber can be slightly negative. Not positive if that necessarily adds additional caster, but here's my allignment sheet from about a year ago for comparison. I have Icon UCAs and my front end is lifted about 1.5" or so. There's no reason your caster should be so low with the equipment you have installed

 

Thanks for the moral support! and the readout from your last alignment! My lift is more than what you have there but hoping this can be looked at again.

 

I contacted JBA to see if they can offer some insights and they sent a very nice detailed message back:

1) The arm install looks good from what I can see.

2) The specs on the right side of the truck were much better Before than After. That means the alignment tech adjusted one or both cam bolts in the wrong direction. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they may have dumbed the right side down on purpose in an effort to at least make the truck go straight.

3) Good news. The right side is easy to make better. The rear cam needs to be adjusted to move the bolt outboard (toward the tire). This will add + caster and eliminate the + camber. I can`t accurately guess from pictures what exact numbers can be achieved but it should be better than the Before numbers on the sheet and much closer to our recommended specs. As good or better than factory specs at least.

4) Not so good news. On the left side both cam bolts are adjusted all the way out and it still has + camber. That shouldn`t be. What`s more, since all of the adjustment has been used up on camber there is nothing left to contribute to caster adjustment and it`s way off.

These are old trucks that have done a lot of living. It`s quite common for them to have slightly tweaked upper arm mounts (they`re the only pickup truck you can buy with the arms mounted in single shear with only one mounting bolt...) or slightly bent steering knuckles. The very slender, organic shape of the knuckles makes it nearly impossible to see with the naked eye but it can throw the alignment way out of range. A lot of them have slightly bent or parallelogramed frames, after all this time and milage why wouldn`t they? I can tell you from several decades of experience doing alignments that when alignment "mysteries" like this show up, it`s almost always because something is tweaked. There has to be a tangible reason why thousands of other trucks are able to easily achieve our improved alignment specs with the same lift height and one or two, here and there can`t. Alignment issues are usually not caused by the truck but by the shop. Your excellent pics (thank you BTW!) showing all 4 cam bolts may suggest that on the right side but there`s nothing an alignment tech can really do with the left side. I suggest taking your truck to the "automotive chiropractor" (a collision shop with the frame rack) for a checkup. It`s not as scary as it sounds and it often just takes a little tweak here or there to get the truck right as rain again.

Please let me know if you have any questions about any of this. We`re always happy to help!

 

So I guess I have two things to do, maybe ask the alignment shop if they'll take another look at it and see if they think it can be improved based on these comments. I've owned this truck since 2005 and never been in an accident. I have however, pulled out a stump, pulled another small pickup uphill with a tow strap yanking violently, and towed trailers that were very heavy, more than what a 2.7L 4 cyl would want to pull. So I guess Im not suprised.

 

I wouldn't beat yourself up. That was a nice, detailed response, but the bits about things being bent should be taken as a grain of salt without that individual putting their hands and eyes on the actual truck.

I'd suggest giving the current shop another crack it if they are willing, otherwise I'd consider finding a shop that has experience in alignments for lifted trucks, and more importantly is willing to take the time to dial it in for you.

Also, my un popular $.02 on the caster, is that I've always targeted the OEM spec (not tried to run increased caster), even with 2.5" of lift and never had trouble hitting it.

 

Good starting point would be for them to dial the rear cams all the way out and the front all the way in... then fight it from there as close back to neutral camber as possible, but starting from there will ensure you get as much caster as can be had. After that then just dial the toe in and it's as good as it can be with that much lift and non adjustable upper arms.