The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

Hello, late to the party on this thread. Quick auestion are the KC G4 Ambers still a solid option, looks like this thread was from 7 years ago. If so, it looks like KC might have discontinued these? I can't find them anywhere, just the clear #500. Thanks for the time.

 

I think you will find that although they were a solid option 7 years ago, they don't really hold a candle to the latest stuff - particularly From Diode Dynamics. I used to run the KC's but am much happier with the DD's.

 

I'd second what @Too Stroked said, and yes, they are discontinued.

 

Kapton tape finally showed up.

I applied a single layer to each light, keeping it as smooth as I could. Unfortunately the kapton doesn't have very much stretch, and the lenses are slightly convex. I considered Lamin-X instead, but I couldn't find a max temp rating, and I'm running 100W Osrams in these, so I figured I'd play it safe.


Powered off, lit by a 6000k Harbor Freight work lamp.


Powered on. The headlight bulbs are uncoated, high performance, standard wattage halogens. The color temp in this picture is shifted higher than it is in real life.


Truck's lighting is the same as the previous picture, the 4Runner has stock 5000k headlights, 3000k DD SS3 fogs. This picture is pretty close to the actual color temp.


Same setup, camera pointed the other way. The color temp here is also shifted up slightly.

I haven't driven with them since applying the kapton tape. The color temp shift with the kapton appears to make the output similar to the Hella Comets tested earlier in this thread.

Overall I'm very happy with them, and I'd be very interested in how they compare to the Hella 500 fogs.

 

I think you'll really like them with the kapton tape. I had a set of halogen cibie super oscars (for a short time, smashed them in a wreck) with kapton sheeting over the lenses on my first vehicle years and years ago.

The nice thing is that it's cheap to replace when/if it starts to get nicked up from road debris.

 

This thread is amazing, I feel the most recent comparison I am working on is relevant and want to share some preliminary pictures here.
The lights are:
Diode Dynamics SS3 pro (2021 version)
Morimoto 4banger HXB SAE
Auxbeam Color Play SAE
Baja Designs SAE

I will be uploading the video this weekend, so for those of you are interested, please stay tuned. (light sources are around 7 ft away from the garage door).

 

The fog lights comparison video is live now.
https://youtu.be/pAiXLx3VJuw

 

Lots of work went into that video. Props for all the work!

However, lots of mistakes too though.
1) 6-7' is horrifically insufficient measuring distance and produces terribly inaccurate results. All that does is cover up poor focus and give better output numbers to poor performing lights. There is a reason professionals measure at extended distances and all you are doing is demonstrating that you are not a serious light reviewer. Those numbers don't mean much at that distance as they will not be very accurate.
2) You are using a cheap

$27 Light Meter Digital Illuminance Meter Handheld Ambient Temperature Measurer, Range up to 200000 Lux, Luxmeter with 4 Digit Color LCD Screen

$28 light meter designed for halogen lights to measure very specific selective yellow LED output. It is wildly inaccurate and specifically unable to measure LED output accurately, so the results mean nothing. If you want to be a serious light reviewer, get the right tools to measure your light source.
3) You didn't cover stable operating output. Some brands have very high initial output and rapidly drop off due to poor thermal dynamic management while others might start lower but maintain higher output overall without substantial dropoff due to better thermaldynamic design. I can easily tell you which is which, but you completely missed it.

 

thanks for the helpful and insightful criticism, I just wanted to provide a bit of the “reasoning” behind the three points.
Normally I measure lux at around 20-25ft away from the garage door surface, due to the limited space and the wider beam of the fog lights, at 20ft the wall won’t cover the whole beam pattern. The main goal is to visually show the difference between each lights while still showing the numbers measured. The field test in the later part of the video also does serve as an open field no distance limited setting to show the beam difference in real world. I will definitely keep that in mind though, to measure at a larger distance to allow the real distance filter out the good and bad fog lights. That leads to second point, measuring device, yes my device is not the professional device and like you said will be inaccurate, but I still tend to think the difference between the four lights here are still meaningful in terms of delta. As a lighting enthusiast, I am definitely no professional at this, but willing to continually improve my technique, would you be willing to share which portable measuring device you would recommend for more serious professionals? I really appreciate it. For the stable operating output concern, I did allow each light to be on for a good 5-10 minutes before measuring lux on the garage door, amp drawn, and taking the picture on the field was also done that way, it was just not edited to shown or stated in the video to save some time, I can do a better job stating that in the future tests.
I really appreciate your criticism and feedback of the video and always willing to improve my contents quality and level of seriousness. Will be sure to start with getting a more professional light meter, Looking forward to hearing from your recommendation of a light meter that’s more suited for LEDs. Again, I really appreciate all the great suggestion and criticism.

 

"Mistakes" was overly harsh, I'd say opportunities for improvement.

20-25' is a great distance for measured output, but yes it does make the beam less defined. I could point you to countless posts where short range tests as you performed makes an underperforming light seem drastically better than it actually is, which is easily discovered when performing a legit distance test.

The more you get into this, the more you realize the "professionals" have no idea what they are doing. Yeah, you can use an incandescent light meter to try and measure selective yellow LED light output and draw a comparison just like so many LED "companies" do. Its pathetic. Full spectrum digital spectrometers are the best but super expensive. The sweet spot is the

$313 Extech LT45 LED Light Meter

Extech LT45, it is a multi-color LED meter. You can specifically set it to measure LED selective yellow. And in your videos I'd casually call out that you are using the right equipment, being that most don't.

For stable operating output, you need way more time on the high powered lamps. ~30 minutes should be the standard, the lamps that are high powered heat soak and drop in output, as do the cheap Chinese lights that have inadequate cooling abilities. 5-10 minutes is going to drastically favor lights that are high in power, but not have the ability to hold that output.

Feel free to PM/DM me with any questions for feedback to help-out with your videos.

 

Does the Extech LT45 also measure color temperature in kelvin? I am also looking for a color temperature meter and hoping maybe I can get away with using one that measures both, I saw you have used a device that pairs with your phone?
https://amzn.to/44IyTkM

Is this what you use? and assuming it can measure the color temperature right?
Thank you!

 

When you make an observation of "fog light" function, very important subject can't be skipped is Cutoff and aiming. Once lamps are aimed, then you can select a measurement point that is meaningful. This requires some learning, but since this is SAE J583 dedicated thread, it is a great opportunity to take a look at definition of J583

1. Aiming
To aim a lamp, the fog beam must have a visually distinct enough cutoff line. This is called g-max (gradient max), where the lit-to-non-lit contrast is highest, typically the upper edge of the lit area
This cutoff line must be aimed 4" below the lamp height at 25' away.

2. Wait till the lamp reaches the thermal stability phase, some low-power lamps reach the stable phase within 15 minutes, some high-power lamp takes much longer as long as 45+ minutes. But to make is simple, generally 30 minutes is a reasonable average to refer (unless you want to log flux shit and calculate exactly)

3. Take a measurement of the below This is some of effective measurement point defined by J583 F function ( F is the basic fog beam requirement; newer regulation uses much more demanding F3 - Most of recent LED fogs, and many recent halogen OE fog for aftermarket Diode Dynamics Elite or Morimoto XB Evo fog, 2Banger NCS fog.



Why is this important? It is because every lamp has a different distribution character, and peak intensity
And the peak intensity of the beam really does not tell how potent a fog lamp is

See below Star shows where the peak intensity was found, but this isn't comparing apple to apple, because fog lamp must be used with it aimed correctly.
Once lamps are aimed, then

https://imgur.com/a/9fJbeIP

How much is this affect on the road ?
In below image set, label top one as A, bottom as B
A has peak at 2.5 degree down vs B has peak at 4.45degree down This means

If a lamp were installed 24" from the ground for example,
A's peak is 46' from the lamp landing point
B's peak is 26' from the lamp landing point.

So if only to compare peak intensity to peak intensity, in this particular case, essentially comparing 26' point to 46' point. Very confusing.




Instead, measure 8" down 16" to each side as the beam center intensity
and 16" down 80" to each side as road edge intensity representation.


Now what data is telling,
center value A 5,250cd vs B 2,400Cd
road edge A 7,000Cd vs B 6990Cd

Peak intensity A 8970Cd vs B 14,331Cd

So if you only look at peak intensity, B may look attractive, but in terms of effectiveness as a fog lamp, A has far more potency.
BTW, A is XB Evo fog F3 , and B is 4Banger NCS as J583 defined fog lamp

This may be much more than a basic observation want to be, but if you are willing to learn and make it stronger comparison, this is my suggestion.
And this method is what the actual J583 defines ( they have several more points to observe, but that's only if you really want to be professional), likely beyond your primary objective.

 

Given what Yoshi and Crash have said, I suggest you pull your youtube video until you can provide one with accurate information.

 

Has anyone used the Nacho sae fog lights with the built in spot/off-road light? Seems like a neat two in one light.

 

I use an Allied Scientific Pro Lighting Navigator full digital spectrometer, it runs about $800 for the device only, plus you need to supply the phone on top. It is professional scientific grade equipment, complete with NIST certification. Warning on devices that rely on phones or aux digital mediums. My $800 device was discontinued, all apps were removed from the app store as the brand moved to crush the outstanding products. I had to keep a legacy phone and opt out of updates to keep my database and preserve the functionality, at a significant unexpected headache and cost. Smart devices can bite you.

Looking at the device you mention, it is cheaper than it should be, though I have no experience with it. I'd question the quality but if interested in color temp, I'd be also focused on CIE plot ability. If your device can do CIE plots you can tell if a selective yellow lamp is SAE compliant, if it is just giving you a basic color temp, well then it cannot. The device you linked does not provide CIE plots. It will not be able to tell you if a yellow lamp is compliant or not. I'd question the quality of a $150 device vs $800, but relative readings can mean a great deal too.

 

Anyone still running Hikari's ? Any input ?

I was very happy with mine, (hi & lo beams too) especially with their side projection, but recently lost one.

I just now checked with them for their recommendation, response pending.

 

maybe try this thread? - 3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

 

Thanks Mahn.... spent some hours on that thread !
Great info, OP put a lot of effort into those comparisons

Hikari came back with these, suggesting as replacements....

$130 Hikari 2025 Future 50000LM H4/9003 LED Fog Light, 65W Titanova LED, 6000K Cool White, IP68 Waterproof, Foglight,Plug & PlayPack of 2

https://www.amazon.com/H4-9003-Titanova-Waterproof-Foglight/dp/B0DMV9NZMQ?crid=17S94AAAAP73L&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3ZQcZMh-DapTuesuPYmFzVh4XyL-bbQqtOQMnOVn-vIIRGxljcYeGwznQoA7TP28PtQZMRZo5Ocx1gJJNWOUKPj7qYYELkkrZccq1AvO6sSXlTrlzW4ogsC3vHUwLmdkzG3lBZR5iW0Bd6jRG1ccUg_-4pSCWsPUv4lJ2umfJiH9etp9zIl8tq3_LFiBf-KePboq0WiNX35kAVvfQEzRt8IxXlBWnh-UuHpoAchAPX3fjKHoIaL9qQrTM0w02fn7HYqhfyRZkFr5UDQISLDD6_loEFhbXJKpcCNyhipWVdo.n0rhcTU9dREKBxb8BJbrQ2R8Mzvb5x5-4NO2kYPalYQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=hikari+led+bulbs&qid=1754705522&sprefix=hikari+led%2Caps%2C125&sr=8-6&th=1

 

You are still putting a LED in a reflector housing.