Rough Ride. Pt2

I posted about this previously and now I just have a couple more questions I’m hoping you guys can help me with…

I have a quote for this new set up.. I’m just curious if I need to.. or should replace anything else before doing this?
Like upper/lower control arms, tie rods, ball joints?

And is there a huge difference between the 5100s and the 6112s? All i do is logging rod driving.


Cheers!

 

Yeah you are not going to like those leafs. Go with Dobinsons or Icon RXT. Dakars are literally the worst leafs out there.

You will likely need new UCAs if going over 2" lift.

5100s ride like factory shocks. 6112s do have better dampening which helps on rough roads.

 

Do you have any suggestions for UCSs?

 

Us Canadians are kinda limited to whatever our local shops carry or else we get screwed on the shipping charges. I'd talk to whatever shop you got this quote from. Or Overland Outfitters in Surrey. Probably going to be either Dobinsons, Icon, JD fab, or SPC. JBA are the popular choice on the forum, but not easy/cheap to get in Canada.

 

Ahhh I gotcha. Okay Thank you! I appreciate the reply.
Also, you think the Dakars for the rear are no good eh? Maybe I’ll ask them about something different for those as well.

 

If your bed is empty most of the time, skip the RXT's as well, they ride terrible without weight (just pass on anything Icon, tbh). If you want a good ride back there and your truck isn't weighed down, you can't get a better riding leaf pack than the Deaver J66.

6112 is a little more compliant shock vs the 5100's. IMO 5100's are too stiff and don't ride great. If you want to go non-expensive Bilstein and do a lift at the same time, 6112's are the way. If you don't want a lift, 4600's ride nicer. Should be fine with that setup but can always upgrade the rear to 5160's if you want the reservoirs.

UCA's are a touchy subject on here. I love my high caster JBA's and hate SPC's, but some will scream at me that I'm wrong even though my truck tracks arrow straight and nothing rubs. Biggest thing is to find a shop that actually knows how to align these trucks properly to get you the proper specs for drivability (not just setting toe to book spec) while preventing as much tire rubbing as possible (i.e. - higher caster than spec usually but in-spec for caster and toe).

 

Been there, done that. Biggest regret out of any purchase I've made, I couldn't wait to get rid of those leafs. Terrible ride when empty, they sag almost immediately (but OME will say it's fine despite being the only company that thinks negative arch on leaf springs is ok) even with no weight in the box, they squeak like a covered wagon, and the 2nd leaf makes contact with the shackle and gouges them. They were designed for the hilux which is a completely different shackle arrangement and just happen to fit a Tacoma. I had to run 300lbs in the box just to keep the wheels from leaving the ground on bumps, but that caused them to sag and lose all lift so I had to install a 1" block just to keep it level.

I have Deavers now and they are so much better it's not even funny. The part that really isn't funny is how much Deavers cost in Canada though... If you have the budget, 100% go Deaver. But it's really hard to justify when you can get Dobinsons for half the cost. They aren't nearly as good of leafs, but still a big improvement over stock. Icon RXT is kinda in the middle between the 2.

 

Wellllll then. I was hoping this was going to be easy lol.
In the first post I made people were saying this quote was a great setup.. now I’m second guessing it all lol. I do appreciate the replies.

 

Ohhh my. I was hoping this was just going to be easy lolll.
I appreciate all the info & replies.

 

Haha man, I hear you. Unfortunately the vast majority of people have choice-supported bias when talking about suspension. Almost always people will tell you that what they bought is great and you should definitely do the same thing. But they don't consider all the options they didn't buy and how much better some of those could be. Not to mention the hive mind effect of everyone just repeating advice they've heard without verifying it personally. So asking for subjective opinions online can often be a crap shoot. That's how I ended up with Dakars in the first place lol.

I actually have had 3 completely different suspension setups on my truck. 5100s with an AAL, Fox 2.0 with medium dakars, and now custom tuned adjustable Elka 2.5 with Deaver leafs and Hammer Hangers. 4 if you count factory, but that was only for 1 day on the drive home from the dealership lol. So I have first hand experience comparing different suspension setups on the same truck, and several years of experience with each setup. The biggest piece of advice I can give you, and this is a from a fellow Canadian, is "buy once, cry once". DO NOT CHEAP OUT. You will regret it. Prices here are already fucked, you literally can't do it cheap. So mayaswell just go full send and get something that you will not feel the need to replace in a few years. I didn't do this and paid for 3 complete setups to get where I'm at.

Like people in your other thread were mentioning, springs dictate ride quality. Shocks mainly just stop the bouncing (or how much energy goes to the springs, which causes bouncing). And the rear of these trucks is really where ride quality is determined. So first and foremost is get quality leaf springs. Shocks are secondary to that. 6112's are a solid choice (that's what Toyota used on the 2015 TRD Pro), but even if you gotta go down to (or keep) 5100s to afford it good leafs will do far more for ride quality than the best shocks. I can personally confirm this.

For the front, just make sure you don't go over 600lb coils. Factory is 580lbs. Dont go up a spring rate just to get more lift. Most people in your other thread were wrong about this, preload does not make the ride any worse. Going to a stiffer coil does. Preload just adds lift and lift comes at the cost of downtravel and lack of downtravel makes the ride worse. Stick with 2" lift and you should be fine with stock UCA's (though if they are old it's actually cheaper to go aftermarket). The ride quality is also better at 2" compared to 3" because of the more downtravel. I've gone a full 3" and regretted it and went back down.

Another tip is that no matter what rear suspension setup you have, you have to toss some weight in the box to calm down the jittery-ness. Otherwise it just bucks around on bumps. The box is just too light on these trucks (it's entirely plastic). Even with Deavers I still do this. ~150-200lbs of bagged landscape rock right over the axle will do wonders.

 

Is that 1300 for 2 6112s? Just saw that was CAD.

 

That should be for the "kit" which is a pair, pretty sure that price is without top hats or assembly though. https://overlandoutfitters.ca/colle...coma-0-2-5-adjustable-bilstein-6112-coilovers.

 

Welllll fck… you aren’t making this any easier on me!! Aahaha. kidding. I appreciate the reply!

Maybe I just need to put some sand bags in the back because it definitely bounces around a lot unless I’m towing my boat (14’ aluminum)
lol

if you had $5,000 what would you do? If the 5100s ride semi close to stock I don’t mind keeping those to save a little.

 

Yeah it’s CAD for the set I’m assuming (hoping)

 

I guess I should add that I don’t necessarily care at all if it is lifted anymore.. I hand load my other boat into the back solo. I’m just after a smoother ride and to be able to keep my bigger tires but if that means a bit of a lift that’s fine!

 

I say focus on the rear. You have 2 year old 5100s on the front, don't worry about those right now. If anything maybe get some new coils if you have money left over. But no point in fixing what isn't broke. You can also try removing the sway bar to see if that helps with the front ride quality, and that's free to do.

Now, before you go and spend $2000 on Deavers, I'd reach out to some local leaf spring shops and see if you can have a custom set made for your truck. I see you're on the island. https://www.islandspring2010.com/ https://www.hubcityspringandmachine.com/ Contact both those shops and see what they say. Tell them you are looking at Deaver U402 stage 1 and wonder if they can make you something similar for less. The specs are: 9 leaf pack, 7 main 2 overload. Full military wrap on the front eyelets. Diamond cut ends. Anti-friction pads. ~2" lift. The hope here is you can have something made for about what you were going to pay for Dakars, but performs way better and doesn't cost $2k like the Deavers.

Here's where I make things even harder for you lol... There is one modification that I would say is the single biggest improvement you can make to ride quality on these trucks, and that's replacing the rear shackle hangers. Hammer Hangers are what you would be looking for. https://overlandoutfitters.ca/colle...ge-2005-tacoma-hammer-hangers-shackle-hangers Nobody really talks about these because they aren't flashy or fun. But a lot of the issues with the rear ride quality is that fast double bounce jittery feel when going over bumps. That's actually the shackle hangers and frame flexing a bit and acting like a second spring, but with no shock to dampen it. Even with custom tuned adjustable resi shocks and $2k Deavers, you will still have that stupid rear jitter. Trust me, been there lol. Hammer Hanger stiffen that up and make it so that all the energy goes into the shocks and not the frame. Just makes it so you get the full benefit of whatever leaf spring and shock upgrade you do. I would have done these way sooner had I know how much they helped. They aren't horribly expensive, but the install is a bitch (factory ones are riveted onto the frame and have to be cut off) so budget a full day of shop time for those. All in all I'm guessing around $1800 installed for those. I would strongly recommend spending your money on these, and going with cheaper leafs like Dobinsons over spending $2k on Deavers and not getting hangers. Ideally the custom leaf springs solution would work out and you wouldn't need to spend more than about $1000 on those.

So you're at about $3k for the leaf spring and hanger upgrade. That leaves you $2k for the rest which is plenty for decent rear shocks and everything else. I'd suggest getting a resi shock, they tend to ride a little smoother. So 5160s over the 5125s (which are just longer 5100s). You don't really need longer shocks even with a rear lift. You just wont have as much droop which honestly isn't a big deal unless you are often doing some really uneven terrain (like rock crawling) where you need the extra articulation. I have ~2.5" rear lift with shocks that are for 0-2" and have never had an issue. Longer/taller shocks come with their own issues as well, like needing taller bump stops and longer brake lines. So best to stay close to factory length if you want to avoid those additional costs.

 

Send it

 

It’s the plan! Just don’t want to send it and end up with shit.. lol

 

Well… my head hurts lol.. I needed a couple days to digest all that loll. I appreciate it A LOT!!

I’m in contact with Island spring again (they gave me the original quote) and I’ve asked them about the custom leaf pack and the hanger brackets and such! They suggested replacing the “Needle bearing” that supports on the driver side front CV axle. New Installed for $400. Thoughts on that?

also, the custom spring pack you suggested lifts it ~2” Correct? With new springs in the front will it raise it a bit? Or is the truck going to sit a bunch higher in the rear?

 

Fwiw you might consider Ride Shocks and Deaver leafs. Yes, its alot of money.

They have multiple spring rates and valving tunes tailored to your weight. Then there are low and high speed (shaft speed) adjusters you can really dial things in with to your liking.

You do need a aftermarket Uca to use their coil overs. I chose AccuTune arms. They use a Moog ball joint and have a O ring in the cap to keep out moisture (unlike dirt king). They use heims and are adjustable but are set to a stock setting. They pull the arm forward to clear the cab mount. They also include alignment specs for the shop to follow.

Overall Im very happy with them and would do it again.

Check out some of their YouTube videos or read up on the tech articles on AccuTune or Ride Shocks websites.