TRD S/C + URD 7th Injector = ??AFR??

Figured I'd come back to this since I still haven't quite figured out what was exactly going on. Plus I haven't had much time to tinker with the truck with work.

One thing I did check was all the connections. I made sure I was getting continuity across the connection so there are no issues there. I also double checked to make sure I was spliced into the right wires. All good there. I also checked the injector to make sure there was resistance there. 12.6 Ohms on the meter. Double checked this inside the cab after the connection and was still getting the same resistance on the wires. So that's good to go.

I haven't talked to gadget yet, but I'm going to email him in reference to this thread and also email him a spreadsheet with the current program in the ecu. I wanna make sure that the program that's in there is the one I'm suppose to have.

I can also email it to anyone that would like to see and give me some pointers.

I will get someone to ride with me in the next couple of days to see if i can't get a better idea of what's going on. May even try to get some video of what's happening.

 

This doesn't seem right. I had the recording on the R4 software while driving when I was going to be a full throttle pull from a rolling 45-50 mph. The AFR was around 13-14 but according to this the 7th injector quit firing?

Anybody got any idea on this one.

 

That's what I said The 7th injector is either designed to fire based off of the boost level or engine RPM; not sure - could be something else entirely. Whatever the trigger is, it appears that when your RPMs/boost reach a certain threshold, the 7th injector will SHUT OFF.

Ill brake this down for you again

-When in boost, your 7th is firing and your AFR is in the 11's. What you don't see is the ECU (if in closed loop) is trimming your primary injectors due to the low AFR readings. Its not noticeable as the 7th makes up for the trimmed primary injectors. Now, as I mentioned before, this shouldn't be happening as the tune (if it has an AFR tuner) should be skewing your AFR sensor input to the ECU during closed loop, making the ECU think you are still running a 14.7 AFR when you are not. I don't know how to fix this.

-When your trans locks up the clutch, the RPM and boost drops a good deal and apparently this triggers the 7th to stop firing. The ECU is still trimming your primary injectors and doesn't adjust the trim immediately, causing your AFR to jump to 15-17.

Not to be a dick, but as I said before, you need to bring this up with URD/Gadget. I dont think you will get a whole lot of help here.

 

Just browsed this thread and I want to add my similar results. When I'm driving in boost, my AFRs are 12-11ish. If I'm gassing, then let off the gas completely, my AFRs go lean. If I push in the clutch and coast for a while, my AFR gauge will sit at 20 and alarm me that I am extremely lean until my engine RPM gets to idle and then it goes back to 14.7ish. I thought I read somewhere that these engines almost completely cut fuel when it senses that you are off the gas.

 

St. Andrew....No offense taking.

I haven't been able to get gadget on the phone lately. (My fault as I only tried one day).

I live in texas and work in north dakota on a 20 days on / 10 days off rotation. Truck stays up here so I can't mess with it when i'm home, and when i'm at work we work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week unless we catch a break. Since I work nights and sleep during the day, hard for me to find time to really mess with the truck.

I have emailed gadget and done a few things he suggest (changing the fuel filter and plugging into it and watching it). He then suggested I call him to talk to him to further discuss what we should do about fixing the issue.

I more so posted the screen shots so that I can have gadget see them and give him an idea of what it's doing.

As far as the AFR calibrator, I don't have that. The AIC-T doesn't allow tuning in closed loop mode, which i'm assuming is where most of this is happening at. I can't tell because i don't have anything to tell me if the truck is in closed/open loop mode. It might be that I need to get a AFR calibrator to be able to tune in closed loop mode so that the truck thinks it's at 14.7 AFR and doesn't lean out.

The fuel injector from what I can tell is firing based on RPM AND Boost. But as you said, it seems as though mine is actually cutting off during a hard pull. I'll see if I can't get ahold of gadget tomorrow and see if he has some insight for me.

 

Mine do the exact same thing. If i come up on a steep hill and let off the gas completely, my AFR will go to 22.4 (max on the gauge). but as soon as i give a blimp of gas it goes back to normal. I'd assume that most cars do this because if your a coasting and not on the throttle but are still moving a high rate of speed, you really don't need much fuel at all since the vehicle isn't under any kind of a load.

 

I noticed something new today. If I'm at 2000 rpm and barely gassing it, my afr will go to 15-16 for a split second, then recover to 14.6ish. It's when I'm still in vacuum. When I'm boosting I'm never lean, but when I'm just driving I get lean at 2000. That's also where I ping. Gadget thought I should do a fuel injection system cleanse like motorvac or something. Maybe the injectors aren't 100% anymore. Could that be your issue too? My understanding is the 7th injector isn't needed until high rpm where the injectors can't keep up.

 

How many miles does your fuel filter have on it?

 

Mine? About 200. Just changed it when I added the fuel pump and 7th injector. I also have the AFR calibrator and 2.2" pulley.

 

Sorry, didnt know your circumstances ... Personally I haven't had too much luck with URD customer service but I think that's because I purchased his parts second hand...

So that's about what I thought, there is no closed loop tuning. So I guessing what is happening is:

The truck goes into open loop based off RPM (I think around 3000 it goes open) and I believe throttle (I think around %80 but I could be way off on these so don't quote me on it). The point is, when you are trying to boost in 4th gear, you are still in closed loop as RPM's or Throttle never reached the threshold for open loop. This is why your primary injectors are trimming out. When the clutch locks up and your RPM's drop, your 7th injector turns off. The ECU is not a quick reaction ECU and changes gradually so when the 7th injector suddenly turns off, your primaries are now firing very lean.

I would suggest an AFR calibrator at least and piggy back tuner recommended.

In the mean time, if you have to pass, just disengage the OD and pass in 3rd gear for now one. Keep ECT Power ON to keep the lockup clutch from engaging too soon. If you are being MPG conscious, when you hit about 50 in 4th gear, let up on the gas for a split second and the lock up clutch will engage (rather than engaging at 60). Then continue to slowly accelerate.

 

Honestly I don't think my issue is a problem with the regular injectors. Under normal driving conditions, cruising 60-70 mph, even 70-80 mph, on flat ground I'm consistently running 14.7 on my AFR. I never hear any ping though. Even when my is showing lean on the AFR, it still never pings. But I do run premium fuel in every tank with the occasional lucas fuel additive about everything 8-10th tank.

I just changed mine less than 500 miles ago. I seen no difference before or after in the performance.


I did speak with Gadget today. He didn't really have a answer as to why my injector would actually stop firing when my rpm's went up. He suggested a few things to change on the R4 software to see if it helps and to also up the numbers in the cells a little in the area's that I was having the issue with and see if that helps. I'm still not sure if it's going to change anything because the area at the low rpms i'm having problems with i'm sure is in closed loop mode. (I need to get a tuner or something to hook up to find out if i'm in closed or open loop mode. Any suggestions here on something to use)

Gadget said that all the other vehicles have plenty of fuel throughout the power band with the 7th injector kit and there is no reason why my truck should be any different than the rest of them.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FEGP7I/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You'll need to purchase your own software (dont used the included software, some of these product reviews claimed anything from porn on the CD to virus's). Just search for "OBD2 scan software"

 

I'll look into that Andrew.

On a side note. I decided to add more fuel to the map just to see what it would do. Believe it or not it's running much better. There is still more tuning to do but the base map that was loaded in simply did not have enough fuel for my truck.

I changed all the cells from 2500 rpm to 8000 rpm and all the way over to 9.5 psi and added a full 1 millisecond to each cell. So all the 1.1 became 2.1 and so on. Huge difference. Haven't seen any more leaning out like before. There still needs to be a little more tuning done but at least it's a start.

Is there a specific afr that I should be looking to obtain at a specific amount of boost. Say 3 psi with 13.5 and 5 psi with 12.5 and 9 psi with 11 Just curious so that it gives me something to shoot for.

 

I discovered that I needed to add fuel to the base map also. From my understanding, any time you are making pressure (boost), your AFR should be 11.2-11.8. When in vacuum you should be at 14.7. I have both an AFR and boost gauge so I am trying to dial it in. I'm not there yet, but I think I finally figured out that I need more fuel around 2000rpm.

 

Since the ecu is in closed loop at 2000 rpm, that would require tuning of your afr calibrator correct?

 

Correct. In closed loop, you need to adjust the AFR readings to the ECU or any fuel added via the 7th injector will be trimmed out via the primary injectors, until the ECU is happy with 14.7 AFR.

 

It really needs to be that rich? If that's the case mine is going to need WAY more fuel. I'm at about 12-12.5 under full boost and around 13 during 0-3 psi boost. Now that I got a better idea of what i'm actually doing, i'll have to get someone to drive so i can fine tune the cells in to get the correct AFR.

 

It needs to be pretty rich I'm told. Maybe Gadget will chime in one day. Here's the link to a guide I've been following pretty closely. I'm going to try to match numbers closely with his and see what happens. http://www.speedysgarage.net/sportr...rtrunner_trd_supercharger_analysis_tuning.htm

 

Intake temps on the TRD S/C can get pretty high so yeah, you want it rich.

Unfortunately, the only way to figure out the best AFR is turn it until it pings and add fuel until the pinging goes away. Thats a good way to blow an engine.

Most ppl are risk advert when tuning and use a 11ish AFR for when in boost. You can try to tune the AFR to match boost levels but if you mess up and ping to hard, your engine will be toast.

 

Holy shit. If he is getting AFR's like that, with numbers like that in his cells, then I really do have something wrong somewhere. In the cell that he has clicked on, 5500 RPM @ 10 PSI with a 1.7 in the cell on 23.4% duty cycle i've got a 3.6 in there @ 49.5% duty cycle. And i'm still barely getting down to the 11's. I'm still showing 12's and according to the utune guide, you can't go over 50% duty cycle because the duty cycle is actually double what the software is showing.

I might need to actually take a look into Cleaning/replacing my injectors. I could have an issue to where my stock injectors aren't pulling their weight.

Do you have the URD tensioner pulley by any chance? Reason i ask, i notice that mine is getting a groove wore into it. Wonder if anyone else's was doing that? Mine spins freely on the pulley so I don't think it's dragging. And the groove is wore in the middle so the belt is riding even. And thus for i don't see any fraying on the belt at all. But i've only got about 4k miles on the supercharger though.

I'll try to get it down to 11.5-12 AFR once the boost comes on. Figure that will be the best bet to insure i don't wind up with any issues. When I really mash on it, i'm not sure if i hear a ping (doesn't sound like it), but i hear something. It almost sounds like the injector under a load cause as soon as you let off the sound goes away. Which of course if it was pinging it would do the same thing.