SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

I know obviously 3 ignition coils (coil packs), and we definitely want plug wires, basically we want to buy new of everything within this "grouping" of parts.

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2140914&cc=1317633
Ignition Coil - coil on plug x 3

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1035296&cc=1317633
Spark Plug (Coil-On-Plug) Boot - DENSO - $29 for all 3

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=871460&cc=1317633 - EDITED - had the wrong link initially, DERP!
Spark Plug Wire - DENSO - $24 - Complete Ignition Wire Set - 5mm

EDIT: What I'm trying to figure out is, if I order:

--- a quantity of 3 of the first item listed (coil packs)
---a quantity of 1 of the second item listed
---a quantity of 1 of the third item listed

Will I wind up with duplicate parts of anything? my husband thinks we don't need the second item because he thinks the boots come with the wire set, does that seem right to you guys?

also, when i put these items in the cart, it says Do you need to replace the Ignition Coil Connector as well? - should we get one of those too? could care less about cost, just have no clue what the hell that is, and might have to shop around at dealers or local stores for it because it appears RA doesn't have a denso of that item but we can absolutely do that if anyone thinks it's a good idea to get it

please help us guys


Koditten, have you ever replaced these parts on your 98?

keakar all 3 fuel items you named have been replaced with brand new OEM within the last 3 weeks

where the heck has DP disappeared to???? please help us you guys, i am so lost

 

boots come with sparky wires...U don't need the boots..

 

one side has coil packs and a separate outer coil "cover" boot and the other side has traditional wires with the long plug in boots.

what she has is 3 coils that mount on top of the valve cover and fits inside of a rubber boot to seal the hole and help hold it securely in place.

so she does have 3 single coils with 3 coil separate coil boots that fit over it on one side and traditional looking plug wires for on the other side.

if you look at her links above you will see this

 

????

coil pack has the boot, spark plug wires come with a boot, thus the three boot kit is not needed....I just went through this, you need two things, the coil packs with the boot, and new wires, each terminated with a boot...

now, this is on my 2000 3.4, I do believe it is exactly the same as far as 99.9% of the parts..

 

Couple of things I would like to comment on: First off I was like everyone disappointed that it was not the crank sensor. Some times these trucks can be really frustrating.

The second is: trying to be tactful here, I'm not sure that I know the why the engine won't start when it's hot. I'm not talking about the specific mechanical or electrical item, I talking about the not having the requirements for an engine to run. In other words, you need gas and you need a spark, and you can have either too much or too little gas. There was a comment earlier that the injectors were not getting a signal. I guessed that meant that the engine was not getting gas. There was also a comment that in order to start the accelerator was floored, this gives me the impression that the engine was flooded. I'm also not sure if anyone has checked to see if there is spark when the engine won't start. So I guess my question is do we know why the engine won't run when hot?

In the old days, I'm an old fart, before all these computers, the first thing we would do when an engine wouldn't start is to pull a plug or two. If the plug was dry it wasn't getting any gas. If the plug was wet, it was either getting too much gas or there was no spark.

I was thinking your good mechanic was going back to zero in his analysis, hence his resetting the computer and wanting you to put some miles on the truck. Understand that if it is a bad coil pack it should show up as a miss on the computer, it may take a while to set this code, maybe sooner than later with the shutter. If you change the coil packs, it would negate his ability to trouble shoot that item.

One more thing and this won't cost anything, many years ago I had a car that I put and electronic module on a distributor/coil system. That car was hard to start when hot. It turns out the standard wires couldn't handle the higher voltage. I found this out by starting the car one night and it looked like the 4th of July under the hood, with arcing up and down the spark plug wires. If your wires are old and breaking down, they maybe shorting out. Sometimes you can see that at night, has to be dark though.

 

I might have a brand new maf thats for your truck if you want it. I bought it off ebay and it was listed to fit my 98 2.7 but was different. The seller refunded me my $$ and allowed me to keep the part. Its yours if you want to pay for the ride. Pm me and we'll figure out how to swap pics to compare them.

 

I grew up on cars old-school like you. However these days, with the computer controlled systems, having the accelerator floored to start the engine is no longer and indication of it being flooded. That was fine back in the day, but no longer the case anymore.

The tech who replaced the cam sensor made a VERY good judgment call. If the cam sensor is defective, or not sending it's signal, then the ECU will not pulse the injectors. Thus the noid-light would not flash, as was the case when he was diagnosing it.

Right now the reason the engine is not starting when hot is exactly what we are all working on figuring out. It was determined during testing that there was no injector pulse. Replacing the cam sensor didn't fix it, and after the guy replaced the crank sensor, just to see if that would help, he went on a important family trip. So at this point we are all just going through and evaluating possibilities.

 

Hi all,

Bama, thanks for the advice about the Rock Auto stuff! Really appreciate it! You're just lookin for some cookies, I'm onto you!

Knuckle, thanks for the generous offer w/the MAF, may take ya up on it, we'll see.....thank you so much!! Just admit it, you're just gunnin' for some Oregon style brownies, aren't you?!?

We heard back from the other "good" dealer and they pretty much refused to give me a name. Kept pushing and pushing, told them I'm sorry to be a PITA, etc, but we have a seriously complex f'ed up situation, PLEASE give me a name. Guy asked me if I had a 4 runner at that point. This was after I'd told him the specs on our truck at least 4 times. Will wait for the REALLY good dealer on Monday if it comes to that, who at least listened thoroughly so far, and gave us 2 specific names of best techs. #1 tech mentioned is there Monday, let's hope it doesn't come to that, we all know how those trips turn into $$$$$$$$

After reading hetkind's posts and a few threads on Yotatech RE: rough idle, etc, we decided before hitting the "check out" button on the RA coil pack/wire order for another chunk of change on a truck that's all f'ed up, maybe we should try some dieletric grease on those old ass coil packs, to see if any diff at all before forking more $ out. Also did the idea mentioned by 4speedoverdrive just now in pitch black driveway, figured its free so why not - no obvious signs of "4th of July" shit going on, but who knows, neighbor's porch light is on and they didn't answer the door when I knocked to ask 'em to turn it off.

Husband is now setting up lights, tools, etc out there to grease those puppies, we'll see what happens. Main reason for even bothering with this step first is the yotatech thread we found, where a guy said this:

$21 CRC 05105 Technician Grade Di-Electric Grease Compound - 3.3 Wt Oz.

"Di-electric grease is to be used in the drop tubes to help with this issue it is best if you can use one of the pointed spouts to reach in the tube and get the spring not just squeeze it in and plug the tube.. some times as well the springs get compressed and they need to be stretched back out.. I figured this out he hard way.."

Figured if it made any change at all in how the truck is running/starting, at least then we could feel a bit better about spending yet another wad of cash on it. Cuz I keep thinking, crap, should we get out now somehow? But then I'm not even sure how we would. Just don't know. But, figured we need to buy the grease anyway, so why not start with this step....

Please pray for us if you're a praying person. Every time I say something dramatic about how we are at our wits end, something worse happens with it. Just seriously a nightmare that we cannot wake up from, nearing the 3 month mark soon. Wow.

Thank you for hanging in there with us, and welcome newcomers! Apologies in advance for any "bumps in the road" in my typical sweetness - at times my nerves are just shot from this whole experience. Will report greasing results when we have 'em....

Ha! And just yesterday, I told myself, STOP worrying, let your fabulous new mechanic do the worrying - he'll be back soon, and if he told you to get some miles on her, just focus on that and think about where to go this weekend to have some fun and log those miles.

And then, the lurching started this afternoon. Which is exactly the symptom that preceded the piston hole. And also like that event, no CEL today - not during lurching, during hot start issues, or during rough idling. Of course. Because that might actually allow us to figure out what's wrong and fix it. That would be far too easy.

Thanks TW people

 

Oh wow. Husband just greased all of them and he saw that our lucky #3 had a chalky white film inside the boot! I'm thinking this is actually good news! Getting real close to hitting that send button on R Auto.....

Prior to greasing them, we started it to get it hot. And this time, it had sat for at least 3 hours since it was last started. Excessive crank time, meaning the symptoms are getting worse. Normally the hard starts are at 30-60 min........

Could this really be as simple as coil packs and wires and boots?

Started it again after he greased them, and crank time wasn't normal, but it was much better. But the true test will be this next go at it, we let it get really good and hot idling just now and are waiting for that heat to distribute under the hood, to the point that the hard warm start would definitely occur if the grease had zero impact....cross your fingers for us please!

 

OK, started better on what would normally be a horrible start! Certainly not perfect, but better! And that was just from greasing the connectors on some seriously old coil packs! That coupled with finding the white stuff inside the #3 boot - I think we just diagnosed this thing ourselves FINALLY! Found a local store that had NGK plug wire set in stock, gonna pick up tomorrow. Ordered just 1 coil pack from RA for now (guess which cylinder it will go in?), should be here by Tues. OMG Tues can't get here fast enough! Then if this is it, we'll feel much better springing for the other 2....

I honestly think this is it. And I think we were well on our way to burning another hole in #3 piston today. Just crazy. How was this not caught by now?? There will be soooo much irony to it if this is it.....

Here's a good read on how coil pack systems can go bad and what the symptoms of that are - enjoy!

http://www.obdii.com/articles/DIS_Ignition.html

 

I got to this party late...I solved somewhat of a similar problem with the replacement of wires only....I had trouble starting, then random misses when cold or in a heavy moisture situation, strange ECU cutouts affecting all sorts of parameters it needs to operate correctly...it happened mostly wintertime...then it got really bad....

Kripes, I thought the worse, head gasket or???? but no telltale signs on sparkies, etc..

Anyway, $25 worth of new wires and perfect....blew me away, I dealt with the problem for a couple of years, new plugs always helped, but it would start the funk after a couple of months....

Sounds like you are on the right trail.....really clean everything up nicely and reassemble, I'll bet you will be sailing down the road happy...

The one lingering question is why did the boot have white residue, usually an indication of a poor connection and/or moisture present...

 

Its the start of a new day over on the west coast. I've been reading from afar every post. Been plowing snow for the last two days, so no comments from me(too hard to type on phone with gloves), so couldn't really post any comments.

I like the direction things are going.

One of the most important rules to live by when working with multiple componet systems(engine): The electrical system is always the weakest link in the operation of a vehicle. These coil packs are definately electrical, plug wires-electrical, fuel pump-electrical. You can see why in the start of this thread I was and still am convinced the trouble will be electrical based.

Granted, the fuel injection system can be looked at in a different manner, but it is still a "dumb" system. It only does what the ecu tells it what to do after the ecu recieves and analyzes data.

I'm glad you have taken it personal to get this truck fixed. If it was my truck, the first thing I would think about when getting up in the morning and the last thing before I went to sleep...if I could sleep. This issue would make sleep impossible.

Look on the very bright side. Anything that could cause you to be stranded has now been changed out. If you do get stranded, all the knowledge you have accumulated will get you home or give you power to asses the problem and take the proper course to get it running.

I never got a chance to answer your question, I didn't even see the notification on my phone until way late. Outside-sunglasses-loud snow blower-I think I can be forgiven.

By the way, I had to change out a CP at the 26,000 mile mark. Afer that I changed out plugs at 100,000 mile mark along with timing belt and water pump. Totally forgot about changing the thing at 200,000 mile mark and decided to do it at the 300,000 mile mark. Thats when the frame rotted out and I had to take it off the road. I still have the carcass sitting beside the shop and have been using the good parts for the project truck.
It makes me sad, but it makes me happy that I have been able to let the old girl live by sending parts to other members.

Like I said, its a new day. Have you done any test drives? I'm patiently waiting for updates.

 

Salamanders in the back yard are a sign of good luck and of pregnancy,,,CONGRADULATIONS!. Just what you need right?.

He was just taking a snooze break from munching on night crawler worms,,and he has been eating good this humid year.

Keep track of your tracks,,so you can report everything you did or tried, back to Mech #2 when he gets back home if needed.

Don't disconnect the battery from the system, because it will delete the mode 6 drive sample I think, if I read that right back a few pages. Did you ever figure out how long of a sample it takes,,or has that been thrown to the wayside already?.

 

I love your story - I am really hoping that's how ours ends too!!

I thought the white was a sign of arcing? I know carbon tracking is black, right? I remember finding an excellent thread someone created, I believe on TW, listing out VERY SPECIFIC details of how to use your spark plugs to give you some serious insight on how your truck is doing, and I know there was stuff about seeing white. Gonna try to track that one down, it's good for future reference, period - very detailed and helpful.

Also we've noticed an odor - remember when I mentioned that about a week ago, and I thought it was fuel, husband thought it was oil, then mechanic found the fuel return line leak and we chalked it up to that? But then we noticed the odor was still present when we picked it up Mon before he had to go to FL. This time my husband smelled it too, while it was STRONG right after we arrived home (had been driving ~10-15 min) - and to him it smelled like burning rubber that time. We called our mechanic right away and told him, and he thought we were probably smelling the bearing oil. Anyway, now I'm wondering if the white is from the boot burning. Gee that sounds safe!

This is so insane. Obviously now we are going, I CAN'T BELIEVE WE LET THEM PUT THOSE OLD COIL PACKS BACK, EVEN THE #3, AFTER BURNING A HOLE IN OUR FREAKING PISTON THERE. But I asked the engine mechanics a billion times, are you positive we don't need to replace any of our coil packs, they are old, we would be OK with doing it if you think there's any reason to at all. And I was told we didn't need new ones over and over, and that ours tested fine. At that time, I didn't know enough to ask if they'd tested them when the truck was hot, but I seriously doubt they did because when we tested them while truck was hot, the primary resistance on all 3 was in excess of spec. Sure, I could have insisted on replacing them anyway, but I thought I could trust the judgement of the guy who was providing my new engine to make that call.

And I've asked our new mechanic several times if he thought it could be the coil packs. He didn't think it could be that, can't remember what he said as to why, but I think his big thing was that he didn't want to see us spend any more money on parts unless/until a clear diagnosis had been made.

Wow. And if this is it, to think how SIMPLE and CHEAP it would have been to replace those a very very long time ago. We'd have a whole lot more $ already spent on on parts and labor still in our pockets, and I can think of a whole lot of things I would rather have spent the last 2 months doing. Although I will say, you guys generally manage to keep it pretty damn entertaining and lively on here - good stuff! Holy crap. Friggin coil packs.

My husband even came up with a theory about why we haven't been getting any CEL while this crap is happening - it made perfect sense to me last night and I loved hearing it, although we DID both have a few drinks by the time that topic was being discussed. Seriously though, I'm sure he and I will talk about it more today, and I'll share it on here. Even though I am actually lucky enough to have a back up Taco brain sitting on my kitchen table (surrounded by a used fuel pump, and piston with a hole, a spark plug with a missing center electrode, a used EFI relay, and 2 bad fuel injectors.....oh yeah, and a dented cam sensor...yup, that's all!)....anyway, even though I was fortunate enough to receive a donor brain if needed, I'm hoping and praying its NOT needed - I can only imagine what problems could be created from swapping something like that if we've had this many issues after an engine swap.

We are not even going to attempt starting it until we get that new coil pack on Tues. I honestly think, based on the way the truck was driving yesterday, what my husband saw when he pulled #3 last night to grease it, and how TERRIBLE the crank time was last night after it had sat for a good 4-5 hours (that's a first, usually its only at 30-60 min) that something seriously bad was starting to happen and we may have stopped driving it just in the nick of time. Sure, the engine is under warranty, but I would rather stab my eyes out with forks than go back there and ask for a new engine. Not really kidding. Whether coil packs/plug wires are the solution alone or not, I definitely don't think we'll be completing a drive cycle anytime soon. It was sooooo tempting to buy an aftermarket brand coil pack locally yesterday, but problem is, not only are you not getting the Denso OEM, but you're paying 2x the price for some crap brand compared to what RA has the Densos for! So as IMPATIENT as we are to replace that fucker, we gotta sit tight and wait for Tues, when hopefully our miracle arrives in the mail.....

Meantime though, we are heading to that local store that has the plug wire set in NGK for reasonable price, so we'll be there the second their doors open at 9am. Then husband's doing the very 1st oil change/filter on new engine, swap plug wires, and take a look at our thermostat. I saw something on Yotatech about the jiggle valve on it possibly being positioned wrong since our ECT is consistently 200+. Apparently this is something that is unique to the 3.4L, kind of a special needs thing, so being that our temp is staying up there, we're gonna have a look - maybe it wasn't put back correctly by the engine guys. Being that we have a "hot start" issue, and since husband is able to do it himself anyway (no cost, that never happens! ), why not check it out.

If anyone has any inside advice for us this morning on the stuff we're doing with the truck today as far as hints and tips, order to do stuff, etc, we'd love to hear 'em! We've got that grease ready for when we do the wires and will probably get more - that stuff is purty awesome! Got OEM Denso oil filter (plated in gold and diamonds of course).

Happy Saturday TW!!! It's a new day, and it feels great to get a crack at doing a few things on our truck ourselves for once!!

Hope you're all enjoying your weekend so far!

 

I seriously LOVE everything you just said. Thanks K!!

Although I will say, there's no way we're driving it til at least the #3 coil pack is replaced - at LEAST that. It arrives Tuesday, then we're doing plug wires today - so we'll likely try starting it Tues after that new coil pack is in, but if there's any weirdness at that point, I really don't think we should chance it. It was NOT driving nicely yesterday - idling rough, lurched 2x, crazy excessive crank time after sitting nearly 5 hours - bad bad bad. And actually, now that I think about it, as far as the conditions the truck was put through yesterday, the difference was a bunch of hot starts in a row. I ran a bunch of errands, and so it had like 5 hot starts back to back midday (one of them was the post office - be watching Mon or Tues for some goodies!), then another 2 of them when going to/from park in afternoon. Hmm......I know our mechanic has driven it some, but guessing yesterday was the most hot starts it's had to endure in a short time since this all started. Wondering if that contributed to that coil pack really giving up, then the lurching, then the 5 hour hot start, etc.

And thanks for pointing out how it's damn near impossible to NOT obsess over this 24/7. I totally agree with folks that have advised to give myself a break, because its not healthy to fixate on something so stressful SO much - that is extremely good advice without a doubt. You guys have all seen me fall apart more than once to know this issue is beating me down more and more every day. BUT. That good advice is damn near impossible to follow, and it's nice to know you get that. I hope you're not the only one that gets that, or a whole lotta of viewers (let's see, ~30,000, right?) must think I'm super nuts. Really though, I'm trying to get back to balancing spending some time on this each day, then some time on normal stuff. I think that's about the best I can do.

OK, at this point, I'm starting to think you like to make me get all teary eyed!! I can always count on you to point out something super sentimental about how our old 98s are so special. Yep, I'm crying. But in a good way. Thanks K

 

Holy fuck Mod. Not funny. The wiring harness comment was more fun and lighthearted than this.

JK! Can always count on you for a laugh! But really though, there will be NO two legged kids for us - you have to actually do stuff like put their needs ahead of your own, and be more careful about spending your money, and ya can't just decide to jump in your Taco and take off for the weekend on a moment's notice....but you're good on all that with the 4 legged kind, so that's what we'll always have!

Yep, no disconnecting battery. Although, I seriously don't think we'll be able to complete our "homework assignment" of doing a full drive cycle, because of all the shitty ways she's running now. Not safe or smart at this point to drive her. So we may have to start all over with the resetting of the ECM thing anyway, after he gets back or something. But that's OK, we can do that if need be, right? I don't know, I just know we can't drive it like it is right now - too risky. The engine dude told us no towing was allowed for a certain number of miles at first, and that kept going through my mind yesterday at the park. It was lurching on my way there, only once, but that's exactly what happened right before piston hole. I was almost at the park anyway, so I went on. Then I had a REALLY NICE RELAXING HIKE with my dog, didn't think about anything stressful at all! But I kept thinking, shit, I'm not supposed to have it towed according to them, but I have no clue if I'm about to burn a hole in a fucking piston if I drive it again or not.

Was very very very very happy to pull in the driveway. Drove ~20 mph on I-205, people glaring at me - hell no I wasn't gonna lay on the gas, that's what I was doing when that hole happened!!

 

Crap. Just realized he'd want to get up to full temp to do the oil. Not sure we want to start it til we have at least that #3 coil pack replaced, which isn't til Tues, unless we want to pay 2x the amount to get one from the dealer today, and that's assuming they have in stock. On hold w/them now...

We're at 450 miles on new engine, and change is supposed to be at 500. Thinking we might just do the thermostat thing and plug wires today, and not start it at all. Then Tues, change coil pack and oil. Then cross our fingers. And start it.

 

Broke down (not literally!) and bought a new coil pack aftermarket for $70. Figured we can always keep it as a back up later on, and it will be replaced with the RA Denso when it arrives. Got the plug wires too. Gonna push it down to neighbors garage now - we've got the whole neighborhood of guys lined up ready to help us push. Cross your fingers guys, we should know within the next couple hours whether #3 coil pack and plug wires are the fix or not...........

 

Question about radiator fluid - is green OK, or do you have to use red? Husband has been using green due to cost diff, but knew red was technically supposed to be better. Auto parts store we were just at said we should really flush the green out and go to red, cuz the green will literally eat plastic. Bought some red and a new thermostat, plus a new ECT sensor, plug wire set, and more dieletic grease, all for only $115! All OEM stuff! Love that store. Asked for a price on new MAF Denso, $105!!!