0-20 oil too thin?

Interesting point. Noticed Amsoil also has a 0-30 Signature series as well as a 5-30. I stayed with a 5-20 because of what the manual states. The 0 Amsoils are a bit more expensive than the 5 Amsoils but I can't see how either would create issues with the motor.

 

Let me know when you are qualified to decide on which oil is "better" for our application. You can read the internet. Yay. Again, when you can bench test several identical 3.5 Toyota motors with identical loading cycles, run them for an equivalent 100K miles or so, tear them down, analyze the wear differences caused by the different viscosity, then I will listen to you. This is what we do in my profession, just not with internal combustion engines. This is how you get qualified to speak with authority, not a casual google search and a post on a forum, unless it's something like Tribologynews.com.

 

How do you even know this??? Somebody told you? You have documentation?
You cannot see the particles with your naked eye that will ruin your engine. Adding more filter area is good, unless it does not have the correct filter media that filters to the proper micron size. Do you know your new filter media is as good as the stock Toyota filter?
No you do not. You assume. GTFO with your "hard" fact" statements unless you can back it up.

 

How do you know what he does for a living? Other than you being a keyboard warrior. As I stated use w.e oil you want. If you're going to vary from the factory recommendations I would send it off to a lab...

 

My responses are above in red.....

The original question was "Is 0w-20 too thin?" The only party that has tested it is the manufacturer. I imagine that there won't be much difference in engine longevity between using 0w-20 and 0w-40 as there are many other factors that come into play that will wear the engine.

I still don't see a reason to do something different that what the manufacturer recommends.

 

I read his words. He is not a Tribologist nor is he an engineer who designed this engine nor is he the guy who pays for my warranty. I just get tired of people speaking with authority that they don't have.
In this thread the only thing I advocate is to use what Toyota tells you to use. I don't profess to be an expert on oil, engines or filtration.

 

He told us he was a mechanical engineer in an earlier post.

HiPSI was just pointing out that Toyota has tested this and likely has the knowledge on the recommendation. If you want to challenge that, cool, just provide something to support it.

 

I call Bull Shit on the "bean counters" and lawyers calling for 0-20. What an absolutely ridiculous comment.

 

Not really. Cost is always a factor. It's not the only factor though. More along the lines of...."What's the cheapest oil we can use and have a reliable engine?"

 

To flip the tables on the factory oil viscosity recommendation deviation because it’s too thin discussion, maybe a better question is:

What is goal here?
Is it longer engine life?
Will it run quieter? Get better gas mileage? More power?
Or last but not least, would I save significant money??

Or at least enough to warrant a warranty denial should an engine failure happen??

The last one is of particular interest to me because at 5k miles intervals, I could save by using cheaper semi synthetic oil. At those 5k intervals I believe I would be fine with 5W-20, I just don’t have access to any supporting data for the 3.5L engine in question.

I do know that oil companies and vehicle manufacturers both have stock investments in each other so the higher $$ end oil recommendation could easily have a financial incentive, but that’s just the conspiracy theorist in me.

Inquiring minds ought to know…

 

Its fine, especially if you live in a cold climate BUT if you are having engine issues, you need to address that. Just throwing a different oil in is not a solution.

 

In the industry i work in (products regulated by gov't), if someone makes a claim about the product, there has to be evidence to support that claim. I assume automotive is similar due to legal and financial risks involved.
The bean counters, marketing team, or whoever could specify a lubricant as long as an engineer can substantiate it as an appropriate specification.

 

This is hilarious. Please dont stop.

 

Textbook oil thread.

 

Think you might want to take some blood pressure medicine! I worked as a CFO, yes "bean counter" for 30+ years in several major manufacturing firms and every single company was thriving to cut costs by any means that would not "adversely" effect product quality. They also did not want their products to last much beyond warranty periods so they would sell replacements sooner. Suppliers in China, Mexico and other low wage countries were courted and utilized and these changes certainly did not enhance product quality. So to think because something written by a manufacturer to the consumer is gospel and in the best interest of the end user, just makes no sense to me. This forum allows for discussion and different points of view from it's members and few are claiming to be "experts" on anything.

 

Agreed that any for-profit company would try and cut costs without adversely impacting quality; that's just common sense.

The difference here is Toyota's reputation for long-term quality. They don't build cars to last just beyond the warranty period.

As someone with almost 40 years on the finance side, including several CFO roles at mfg companies, I never once witnessed or participated in a decision where finance overruled engineering/manufacturing on cost versus quality. Ever. If anything, it was the engineers that drove cost-cutting measures.

Do those types of decisions occur with different products? Most assuredly. One just can't make a blanket statement across different industries.

 

Funny thing... I worked as Chief Engineer in a global OEM for off highway mobile equipment. I worked closely with marketing, purchasing and accounting. We were known in the industry to be the most durable product and our prices reflected that. We had budgets of course and had to meet marketing needs too. However, when it came down to our core features including durability, did any other group override engineering. We would always maintain durability at the expense of some features, because, guess what...that is what our customers really wanted. Our job was to outlast and outperform our competition while offering our customers a product at a competitive price.

 

Fake

FAKE NEWS

 

Id caution on using a 5W over a 0W. For the oil passage reasons. You want it to flow ASAP upon starting.

I can read the internet, analyze test reports, then critically think for myself. That last part is key, and why threads like this derail.

Toyota doesn't run statistically significant tests for every engine/oil combination for 100k miles, it would literally bankrupt them. A test that I would accept is a repeatable test with a low enough std deviation of wear through oil film. That's relatively easy to do. The reason people (most) don't is it requires discipline.

First, you figure out how parts wear, do they have an "oil wedge"? If so, doesn't really matter what kind of oil as long as you can get it where it needs to go with enough pressure. Read my hot 40W oil is less viscous than 0W argument which no one is refuting.
If it is film contact, read my above suggestion to test.
If it's corrosion, that's another simple test. Don't think I've seen too many erosion problems from oil (and 40W would win there regardless) .
If it's a sealing concern, 40W should win there too.
What other types of wear do engines get from oils?

Exactly, so why are we arguing? Bean counters ask engineers if it'll work, engineers say sure, that's what they go with.
Not to put words in Toyota mouth, but they're saying that 0-20 is adequate (and they'll warranty that), not the absolute best. If they meant the absolute best then they wouldn't have chosen 0-20, and none of us could afford to do an oil change every 10k miles.

__________________________
If you want to drive your vehicle to the ground and care about using the best oil, then do your own research. Or just replace your engine when it eventually fails.

Not saying it's going to fail because of oil, very high chances some other part will make it cheaper for a new engine long before something wears out from using 10-20. I'm just tired of people blindly saying use MFG warranty as godspeak without doing the research.

 

To bring it back to the actual topic: is 0-20 too thin?
No, it's not. It's fine.

To the next question of; is 0-40 too thick?
No, it's not. It's fine.




Edit, by erosion I meant fluid erosion. Particle erosion is controlled by your filter. Separate conversation. And just as important as oil selection. Filters are amazing.