1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

1st vs 2nd generation?

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Cheltaco, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:07 PM
    #21
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Member:
    #6497
    Messages:
    112,751,503
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    FlimFlubberJAM
    Tenoe, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2019 Rubicon 4 Door,
    4.10 gears, sliders, and lots of buttons.
    Ive looked all over the net, and cant find anything to back up your claims. One thing to consider as well......Toyota has partnered with GM......Another reason Im doubting this claim. Do you have a link to this info?
     
  2. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:12 PM
    #22
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Member:
    #6497
    Messages:
    112,751,503
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    FlimFlubberJAM
    Tenoe, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2019 Rubicon 4 Door,
    4.10 gears, sliders, and lots of buttons.
    Only thing I have found so far.....

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/27/business/worldbusiness/27iht-ford.html

    DETROIT — DETROIT: The new chief executive of Ford Motor, which is struggling to bounce back from one of the worst crises in its history, met last week in Tokyo with the chairman of Toyota Motor, which is poised to become the world's biggest auto maker next year.
    Ford's chief executive, Alan Mulally, and Mark Fields, the head of Ford operations for the Americas, attended the meeting last week with Toyota's chairman, Fujio Cho, and other top Toyota executives, senior officers at both companies said Tuesday, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
    Toyota issued a statement Wednesday describing the meeting as a courtesy call, but did not say what was discussed.
    "We held talks at the request of Ford," the president of Toyota, Katsuaki Watanabe, said in Nagoya, according to Bloomberg News, citing Kyodo News.
    Toyota and Ford officials, as well as the Japanese news media that first reported on the meeting, indicated that the talks had focused on developing environmentally friendly technology, like hybrid-electric and hydrogen fuel systems, as well as on ways that Toyota could help Ford improve its manufacturing efficiency.
    The meeting of Mulally, Fields and Cho follows talks held this summer between General Motors, Renault of France and Nissan of Japan.
    But Ford and Toyota are not believed to have discussed anything that resembled the joint purchasing or car- production ideas that were the subject of GM's talks with Renault and Nissan, which ended in October without any agreement.
    Ford and Toyota have an association that stretches back to the 1950s, when Ford allowed managers from Toyota, which was trying to regroup after World War II, to study the operations at its giant Rouge complex in Dearborn, Michigan.
    The visits helped Taichi Ohno develop the Toyota production system, which emphasizes driving out waste, fostering worker involvement and making continuous improvements on the factory floor.
    Toyota also came to Ford in the 1980s when it was looking for an American partner with which to open its first plant in the United States.
    The two companies held brief discussions that could have led to a joint Ford- Toyota venture to build a version of the midsize Camry for each company. Instead, Toyota entered into a joint venture with GM that recently celebrated its 20th anniversary.
    Now, Toyota and Ford may work together again as Ford tries to regroup from a third-quarter loss of $5.8 billion in North America.
    Cho, who worked under Ohno and ran Toyota's plant in Georgetown, Kentucky, before becoming its chief executive and subsequently its chairman, is concerned about the financial problems facing Ford, an executive at Toyota said.
    "If he can do anything to help them out of this, he would like to," the executive said.
    Analysts have said that Ford probably had little to offer Toyota in terms of cash or know-how, though Toyota could be seeking access to Ford's hybrid technology. Rather, they said, Toyota was probably hoping to deflect criticism from Washington as it seeks to overtake GM.
    "If it forges a relationship with Ford, Toyota is probably hoping it will be seen as a goodwill move," said Chester Dawson, author of "Lexus: The Relentless Pursuit." He added, "Toyota is wary of inciting trade friction."
    James Womack, co-author of "The Machine That Changed The World," which examines Japanese automakers' American plants, said, "Toyota has nothing to gain, either politically or in the market, by letting Ford fail fast."
    Toyota, the world leader in hybrid- electric cars, already licenses hybrid technology to Ford, which sells a hybrid version of the Ford Escape, a small sport utility vehicle.
    Ford has its own hybrid program, but it cut back on hybrid development this year when it decided to place more emphasis on developing flexible fuel vehicles that can run on gasoline and another type of fuel, like ethanol.
    Ford buys parts for its hybrid vehicles from Aisin Seiki, a supplier that is partly owned by Toyota and part of its global network of parts-making companies. Ford and Aisin have had disputes over the number of parts Aisin was willing to make available for Ford vehicles.
    Mulally is a student of the Toyota production system and used a form of it on assembly lines at the Boeing, where he was head of the commercial airplanes division before joining Ford in September.
    Mulally and Fields flew from the United States to Japan and returned immediately afterward, people with direct knowledge of their trip said Tuesday. During an interview Friday, Mulally gave no hint that he had made the trip, which is a round-trip flight lasting about 24 hours.
    The long journey reflects the value Mulally places on Ford's relationship with Toyota, according to a company officer with knowledge of his views. Only a year ago, Bill Ford Jr., then Ford's chief executive, sounded a more competitive note.
    "My goal is to fight Toyota and everybody else and come out on top," Ford said during an interview with Time magazine, adding: "I'm not ceding anything to Toyota. They're an excellent company, and they're a terrific competitor, but I look forward to taking them on."
     
  3. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:12 PM
    #23
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Member:
    #6497
    Messages:
    112,751,503
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    FlimFlubberJAM
    Tenoe, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2019 Rubicon 4 Door,
    4.10 gears, sliders, and lots of buttons.
    I knew about this ^^^.....But nothing about Ford helping Toyota with a Tacoma design, or engineering of it
     
  4. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:23 PM
    #24
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Member:
    #6497
    Messages:
    112,751,503
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    FlimFlubberJAM
    Tenoe, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2019 Rubicon 4 Door,
    4.10 gears, sliders, and lots of buttons.
    About 5 years ago, Ford DID meet with Toyota Execs. to discuss a partnership, but it was mostly to be able to use Aisin as a supplier, and to gain some of Toyotas Hybird technology. Other than that, they (rumored) discussed production architecture, and some other things, but thats the extent of it.
     
  5. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:36 PM
    #25
    BCH

    BCH Shiester

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Member:
    #34473
    Messages:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris
    Lafayette Ga
    Vehicle:
    SR5 4x4 4cyl
    Viper, ARE Camper

    You can call it what you want or say it however you like but I was there, It happened, and unfortunately you cannot change it. After the 2004 model truck was developed (Sometime in 2001/2002) It was decided the Tacoma had reached a peak and there was no-where to go but down hill from there. The 2004 was the king of the road as far as small pickups was concerned and Toyota had to find a way to revamp the 2005 and later model year trucks. Several trucks were designed in the 2005 development process (Ones you have not seen) and eventually Toyota decided to seek the ideas of other manufacturers. Eventually the 2005 truck was designed at the last minute because they did have to develope a 2005 model truck.

    One comment that was made during those long, boring, unfruitful trips where several people was upset over the Ford designs was, (You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit)
     
  6. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:37 PM
    #26
    Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Member:
    #5269
    Messages:
    5,125
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Frank
    Rocklin, Ca.
    Vehicle:
    2001 prerunner doublecab limited
    2001 with; cat-back side-swept twin exhaust, elbow mod, Westin bullbar with Hella 450 driving lights, Snugtop XTR camper shell, TRD off-road 2x4-black beauty.
    [​IMG]woogit duh lil puppie so cyootttt Chris I LOVE your sig it is badass:D
    You know I am going to say 1st-gen for the win-the only single drawback with this truck IMO is driver seat comfort-MY ASS HURTS!!!!!!!! BADDDD!!! After 100-mile trip I feel like by hip is gonna pop out. I think the seats are too flat and hard for an oversized whiteboy like me (250lbs) but other than that stupid little quirk this truck is PERFECT in every single way. Power aint bad either gents yeah you got 40 more ponies but you have a bit more weight to haul too. OP made an excellant move getting that '04 and I believe he will find that truck to be a good friend to him and his family:)
     
  7. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:40 PM
    #27
    MARKIE

    MARKIE Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Member:
    #682
    Messages:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    I agree the bad seat is very bad other than that 1rst gen wins overall. so how about that link Chris?
     
  8. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:41 PM
    #28
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Member:
    #6497
    Messages:
    112,751,503
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    FlimFlubberJAM
    Tenoe, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2019 Rubicon 4 Door,
    4.10 gears, sliders, and lots of buttons.
    Ah....so a modded, and tuned SC'd 3.4 is quicker than an NA 4.0......No kidding. An Off the lot Sc'd 3.4 isnt much quicker than a 1GR NA'd. SO...I dont see the error of Matt. With a 4 tenths diff 0-60, alot of that difference can be made up for, or lost, by the driver. As for your comparison of a modded SC'd Tacoma beating an NA 1Gr Tacoma..well....My buddies 997 can make your Tacoma look like a retard stopping to eat paste. Whats the point?
     
  9. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:41 PM
    #29
    steve o 77

    steve o 77 braaap

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Member:
    #26726
    Messages:
    19,924
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Steven
    In a corn field, OH
    Vehicle:
    1990 Chevy Siveraydo
    245k+ miles, rust, working AC, bald eagles
    Could you give some examples of interchangeable electronics or drive train components?
     
  10. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:44 PM
    #30
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Member:
    #6497
    Messages:
    112,751,503
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    FlimFlubberJAM
    Tenoe, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2019 Rubicon 4 Door,
    4.10 gears, sliders, and lots of buttons.

    Thanks Frank! BUT.....To clarify the HP diff between the 1GR, and the 5VZ, its more like a 55 to 60 hp diff. Keep in mind the 190 HP ratting was taken a little differently than the newer trucks are rated. Dynos have shown the 5vz to put down about 150 to the tires (out here in AZ), while the 1GR is putting down about 205 to 210. :eek:
     
  11. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:45 PM
    #31
    BCH

    BCH Shiester

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Member:
    #34473
    Messages:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris
    Lafayette Ga
    Vehicle:
    SR5 4x4 4cyl
    Viper, ARE Camper
    OK, So I made all that stuff up to illustrate that the 1st Gens are indeed the better trucks. If someone had of posted that about my 1st Gen truck I would have known it was bullshit and would not have even searched for that reason. The fact that the 2nd Gen truck owners are looking into this at this time shows that they know deep down in their hearts that the 1st Gen trucks was the last of a legend of small tough trucks that was made with high quality materials and it looked good too, AND Those second Gens are about like driving a Ranger, LMAO

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
     
  12. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:45 PM
    #32
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Member:
    #6497
    Messages:
    112,751,503
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    FlimFlubberJAM
    Tenoe, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2019 Rubicon 4 Door,
    4.10 gears, sliders, and lots of buttons.
    Personally....I liken this debate (First gen vs. Second gen) to trying to ask yourself which is your favorite kid....or pet. I love them both.
     
  13. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:46 PM
    #33
    steve o 77

    steve o 77 braaap

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Member:
    #26726
    Messages:
    19,924
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Steven
    In a corn field, OH
    Vehicle:
    1990 Chevy Siveraydo
    245k+ miles, rust, working AC, bald eagles
    :rolleyes:
     
  14. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:47 PM
    #34
    Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Member:
    #5269
    Messages:
    5,125
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Frank
    Rocklin, Ca.
    Vehicle:
    2001 prerunner doublecab limited
    2001 with; cat-back side-swept twin exhaust, elbow mod, Westin bullbar with Hella 450 driving lights, Snugtop XTR camper shell, TRD off-road 2x4-black beauty.
    OK Chris I figured I wasnt ballson but I personally am happy with the power here as you know:D but yeah you guy got a hotrod of a truck no doubt-I give ya that!
     
  15. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:47 PM
    #35
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Member:
    #6497
    Messages:
    112,751,503
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    FlimFlubberJAM
    Tenoe, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2019 Rubicon 4 Door,
    4.10 gears, sliders, and lots of buttons.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:49 PM
    #36
    BCH

    BCH Shiester

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Member:
    #34473
    Messages:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris
    Lafayette Ga
    Vehicle:
    SR5 4x4 4cyl
    Viper, ARE Camper
    Whew that was fun !
     
  17. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:55 PM
    #37
    MARKIE

    MARKIE Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Member:
    #682
    Messages:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    An off the lot 3.4l S/C Tacoma with the 7th injector trd or urd is still going to be 1 sec quicker. the .4 was the s runner vs x runner. We don't know what other mods his friend had. Most people already have the headers, cold air intake and exhaust done and that alone doesnt make much difference until you run Forced Induction through it... Either way Matts truck is not faster and to say that is wrong. That is all I am getting at. Whether or not his friend is a bad driver is irrelevant. Don't bring the 997 into this or I am going to have to bring up the stock Dodge Viper which pretty much rapes eveything that is natuarally aspirated and then some. Completely irrelevant to this suject. I still want to see your link? Don't get me wrong, for a street performer the supercharged 4.0 is the way to go. 4 seconds 0-60 is achieveable fairly easy. Tons of youtube videos on that.
     
  18. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:58 PM
    #38
    05RedTaco

    05RedTaco Nom Nom Nom

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Member:
    #43521
    Messages:
    1,747
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tony
    Scottsdale
    Vehicle:
    2000 Tacoma XtraCab 2.7L 4x4
    [​IMG]

    And of course you need...

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Oct 8, 2010 at 9:58 PM
    #39
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Member:
    #6497
    Messages:
    112,751,503
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    FlimFlubberJAM
    Tenoe, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2019 Rubicon 4 Door,
    4.10 gears, sliders, and lots of buttons.
    I have the mag in person....I cant find the link for it however. I was comparing stock trucks. Stock "Off the lot" X-Runner, to a stock "Off the lot" SC'd S-runner. Once you add different mods, ofcourse its going to skew things futher.
     
  20. Oct 8, 2010 at 10:00 PM
    #40
    MARKIE

    MARKIE Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Member:
    #682
    Messages:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    ahhh paul walker vs vin diesel classic
     

Products Discussed in

To Top