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2003 Frame Replacement Denial

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by Riodelarosa, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Nov 16, 2017 at 4:02 PM
    #1
    Riodelarosa

    Riodelarosa [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Grill guard, rain visors, bug deflector, custom luggage bars on canopy
    Short Version: 15 year frame rust Extended Warranty is about to expire. Toyota dealership said my truck failed the frame inspection, Toyota Regional denied the frame replacement based on photos said it was not sufficiently rusted. Customer Experience Hotline and Dealership say regional has final say. What are my options for forcing/pressuring Toyota Regional to honor my warranty??

    Long Version:
    I called the Toyota Customer Experience hotline in late August 2017 to inquire about whether my truck qualified for a frame rust protection coating or repair under their 15 year extended warranty that was offered for 2001-2004 Tacomas. I was informed that my truck was "potentially eligible for frame repair" valid under the warranty until the end of 2017 and a case was opened. I was told I needed to take the truck into an authorized dealership for a frame inspection. The results of the frame inspection would be sent to the regional office who would make the decision regarding frame repair or replacement. I was also informed of a recall on the spare tire carrier that was prone to rust and potential failure to hold the spare tire in place properly.

    I brought my truck in to the Toyota of Portland to replace the spare tire carrier and inspect the frame. I explained to service advisor at the local dealership what my conversations had been with the customer experience hotline. When I picked up my truck they said it failed the frame inspection due to excessive corrosion. Also I was told by the service advisor that they didn't replace the spare tire carrier due to overall rust and removing it it might further compromise the integrity of the surrounding area of the frame. When I asked the dealership if my truck was safe to drive, I was told that it should be ok to drive currently but as the rust was prone to spread and further degrade the frame, it was recommended that I not keep the vehicle longer than a year.

    When I contacted the customer experience hotline again I was told that the dealership didnt properly document the inspection and they needed to have taken photos of the frame. So i again took my truck back to the dealership for them to take photos. A different technician lifted the truck up and quickly snapped a few photos of the trouble areas.

    Finally I was informed by the service manager at the Toyota of Portland dealership that the regional office denied my frame replacement based on the photos they received. Supposedly the regional office said that the rust is only bad on the cross bar and that is a removable section of the frame that can be replaced so the frame itself is not did not fail. When I asked the dealership to forward me the photos, it appears that most of the photos are of the cross bar section. The customer experience hotline and the local dealership act as if they have no decision in the matter, and there regional office does not handle customer relations, so there is no one else for me to discuss this denial.

    My complaint is that I have official Toyota paperwork saying my vehicle failed the frame inspection, and based solely on photos, and with one month left of my warranty, the regional office reversed/voided the diagnosis of their own local Toyota qualified service department and denied my warranty claim. The recalled spare tire carrier has still not been replaced, and Im worried that once it is it will uncover more corrosion, but by that time my warranty for frame replacement will have expired.

    I want Toyota to honor my warranty and replace the frame on my truck like they are obligated to do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  2. Nov 16, 2017 at 4:06 PM
    #2
    T4RFTMFW

    T4RFTMFW Well-Known Member

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    You don’t have official Toyota paperwork, the dealer (privately owned and sells Toyota via contractual agreement) says it failed. Official Toyota says it isn’t excessive enough to meet their parameters for replacement - which are pretty black and white.

    See if you can have another inspection done (more thorough, you may need to pay for it) and see if you can find a perforation in the frame, if it’s just heavy corrosion, then those trucks aren’t getting replaced, just recoated.

    In the end it’s either a failed frame or it isn’t, you won’t be able to convince them your frame fails unless it meets their guidelines for it. Not without a lawyer, anyway, and then only maybe!

    Welcome to TW.
     
    cory02taco likes this.
  3. Nov 16, 2017 at 8:43 PM
    #3
    Riodelarosa

    Riodelarosa [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Grill guard, rain visors, bug deflector, custom luggage bars on canopy
    I guess that makes sense that each of the local dealerships are privately owned. But I figured that their opinion/expertise meant something to regional since official protocol for the frame replacement requires you to take your truck a dealership for the frame inspection. Then regional just overrides their diagnosis if they want I guess.

    They didnt offer any rust coating, and they said it was on me to replace the cross section. I guess Ive seen worse rust than mine, but Ive also seen photos of frames that didnt seem as rusted as mine that people claim toyota approved the replacement.

    I want to get another inspection and better photo documentation. I just feel like regional toyota said it didnt quality because it wasnt rusty enough because they couldn't find any other technicality to void my warranty and if I dont dispute it then after next month its out of warranty anyways.

    Was wondering if anyone has had to deal with anything like this.
     
  4. Nov 16, 2017 at 8:49 PM
    #4
    Riodelarosa

    Riodelarosa [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Grill guard, rain visors, bug deflector, custom luggage bars on canopy
    Here are a few photos of the frame

     
  5. Nov 16, 2017 at 9:27 PM
    #5
    frizzman

    frizzman Well-Known Member

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    1 & 3 are lots of surface rust that could potentially get compromised

    pic 2 is a hole on the trans crossmember, a bolt-on part. I don't know enough to say they are wrong or right
     
  6. Nov 16, 2017 at 9:45 PM
    #6
    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    simple question... would it be worth it to you to offer to pay 1/2 the cost? Might be a conversation starter.
     
  7. Nov 16, 2017 at 9:57 PM
    #7
    KDT

    KDT Well-Known Member

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    Brought my '04 in for state inspection and it failed due to frame rot (mostly on the crossmembers, which is not the usual place). Dealer really wanted to do a new frame (big $$$ for them). They told me no problem, they'll take care of everything. They did all the photos and sent them off to Regional. Regional denied the claim and told the dealer there was "currently no program for frame replacements." Dealer told me it was BS and they were still doing plenty of frames. They couldn't figure out what was up. I tried calling and emailing Regional and got no response. The dealer service guy sent Regional an email (with me on blind copy) to ask what was going on and got no response.

    I called HQ, was transferred to someone in the Frame Squad and politely told him:

    1 - I had the dealer inspect and spray the frame in accordance with the letter they sent me, which activated the 15 year warranty, so there's your current program.
    2 - I have the paperwork from the frame spray and the letter from Toyota with the warranty terms and information.
    3 - Toyota trained service people said the frame was too rotted to pass the state safety inspection and was bad enough for a replacement.
    4 - I played by their rules, so either honor the warranty or call it safe and give me an inspection sticker (and accept a ton of potential liability).

    HQ called the dealer directly, got the photos, and approved the new frame within a couple days.

    So what's the deal with the Regional offices? Maybe they get a bonus for rejecting frame replacements and keeping costs down. Perhaps they're understaffed for the frame mess and stuff falls through the cracks. Or maybe they're just dicks.
     
    frizzman and Riodelarosa[OP] like this.
  8. Nov 16, 2017 at 10:22 PM
    #8
    Riodelarosa

    Riodelarosa [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Glamisman-
    No, I wouldn't be happy about forking over thousands of dollars on an issue that Toyota has claimed to cover. The dealership said that the replacement costs Toyota about $14,000 in parts (and labor?) and then with all the optional replacement parts that are not part of the warranty but suggested to be paid for as an add on... Even if I split the bill with Toyota I might end up paying near what I owe on the truck. I just bought it last year from a used car dealership and am still paying the loan.

    KDT-
    Thanks for your sharing your experience. Gives me a little hope that things could still be negotiable. When you say that you called "HQ" Do you mean the 1800-331-4331 customer experience hotline number? I was specifically told that regional offices i.e. Toyota Motor Sales USA does not answer customer service calls. Once I opened a case with the hotline they assigned me an agent and that is the only person that is allowed to speak to me regarding my warranty claim. He seems cordial, but very tight lipped and protocol about divulging any extra information that is not surface level suggestions or straight from a script and demonstrates no authority or influence in the matter. I was thinking of writing a certified letter to the regional office.... and perhaps paying them a visit in person since they're located near me.
     
  9. Nov 17, 2017 at 1:33 AM
    #9
    Wyoming09

    Wyoming09 Well-Known Member

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    Unless you missed the worst parts I can see why your claim was denied .

    Compared to most in the High winter Chemical areas that frame is Cherry !!

    Then I don`t guess Portland Sees many bad frames .

    Like the hundreds my local dealer did
     
  10. Nov 17, 2017 at 6:24 AM
    #10
    taco57

    taco57 Well-Known Member

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    From what I have read and seen the frames actually have to be worse than what your pictures show. Those are right on the edge though. I think it would pass the hammer test which is the main method of determining whether the frame gets replaced or not.
    If you are keeping your truck and you cannot get the new frame I would suggest gettin busy with cleanup and treatment POR 15 and then fluid film every year.
     
    Cid likes this.
  11. Nov 17, 2017 at 6:44 AM
    #11
    tony2018

    tony2018 Well-Known Member

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    The 2nd image to the right of the 1st image shows a rotted out hole, I don' tknow what more they want to know. Talk to HQ
     
  12. Nov 17, 2017 at 6:46 AM
    #12
    frizzman

    frizzman Well-Known Member

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    @Riodelarosa do you have any more pictures of the frame? possibly by the leaf spring hangers/perches? rear portion of the frame at all?
     
  13. Nov 17, 2017 at 6:47 AM
    #13
    frizzman

    frizzman Well-Known Member

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    like I mentioned in my other post. since the whole crossmember is a bolt on part it's not part of the "main" frame section :(
     
  14. Nov 17, 2017 at 6:48 AM
    #14
    tony2018

    tony2018 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I took a closer look and that is the cross member bar. thought it part of the frame.
     
  15. Nov 17, 2017 at 6:50 AM
    #15
    taco57

    taco57 Well-Known Member

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    I saw that. But that is a bolt on peice that could easily be replaced. They look for holes in the main frame most likely by the front mounting point of the rear leaf spring.
    Certainly not questioning your concern, I would be right with you. Just dealing in the unfortunate reality of the situation.
     
  16. Nov 17, 2017 at 6:54 AM
    #16
    scocar

    scocar hypotenoper

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    I've not been following this issue super closely over the past 10 years, even though I had a 1st gen. Not in a rush state.

    But, my understanding is that the inspection involved a hammer test to see if the frame would perforate, and that the majority of the dangerous corrosion tended to be inside the frame where it was more difficult to detect visually. Is that no longer the case under the current inspection program?
     
  17. Nov 17, 2017 at 6:58 AM
    #17
    DaveInDenver

    DaveInDenver Not Actually in Denver

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    Toyota has to be jerks about it, they can't just rubber stamp every request for a frame replacement due to rust. They have a criteria and locations of perforations seem to be the main go/no-go trigger. I agree that any rust just irritates me and really wish this wasn't an issue and they were built and finished right in the first place. But Toyota can't just give everyone a new frame every 10 or 15 years either.
     
    hr206 likes this.
  18. Nov 17, 2017 at 7:02 AM
    #18
    smmarine

    smmarine Well-Known Member

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    Get up underneath your truck with a hammer and bang away. Use the claw end if you have to. Look for the worst spots and see if it will punch through anywhere. If it does, take it back to the dealer. If not you’re probably SOL
     
  19. Nov 17, 2017 at 7:07 AM
    #19
    DaveInDenver

    DaveInDenver Not Actually in Denver

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    Yeah, I'd probably be sure it's actually gonna punch through before I wail on my frame with a pointy stick. If it doesn't perforate you're left with a shitload of dents and cracks that guaranteed water will get under the paint with only 6 weeks left on the 15-year window.
     
  20. Nov 17, 2017 at 7:11 AM
    #20
    smmarine

    smmarine Well-Known Member

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    The frame is steel and the rust is already starting. Whacking it with even the claw end of a hammer isn’t going to mess it up any more than it already is. Based on the way the frames starting to look he doesn’t have much longer before it starts to perforate anyway, unless it already has.
     

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