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2003 with a PO456 Engine Light Code

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas' started by ugmold, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. Oct 25, 2012 at 9:43 AM
    #21
    ugmold

    ugmold [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Dropped it off at Ernie Boch Jr's colossal Toyota Dealership. They can't find the leak, they say they have to drop the tank and replace it. $2,400. Good thing I don't have the money. Don't have to pass inspection til April, so I might see if somebody else can swap the tank. I think this is a rust issue and I think should be covered as well.

    But they are covering my spare tire carrier that rotted out.

    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1st-gen-tacomas/242725-spare-tire-fell-mount.html#post5794870
     
  2. Oct 27, 2012 at 3:24 PM
    #22
    ugmold

    ugmold [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I am looking to buy another/new gas tank and hopefully have someone other than the dealer install it.
     
  3. Oct 27, 2012 at 4:52 PM
    #23
    Yamaha Dave

    Yamaha Dave Well-Known Member

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    ^Hopefully you are not paying for any of that. Anyways I'll let you learn off my mistake of having to tackle this code after replacing many parts at my own expense because of not properly getting a Smoke Test FIRST.

    Basically it all came down to a lazy incompetent dealership who had no idea how to handle to small gas leak for this truck. Once I found a good dealership who was aware of dealing with this issue here is what they came up with.


    1.) Complete Smoke Test, cost was $75. Do this first instead of trying to guess where the leak could be. This will save you LOTS of time and MONEY by pinpointing the leak down to 1 sq inch. This saves you from having to replace part after part until the light goes away, only to have it come back on in 100 miles which is what happened to me.

    2.) A first we though it may have been the Charcoal Canister, or a leak near the VSV which commonly fails and produces a small leak. Smoke Test came back with no leak near the Charcoal Canister.

    3.) Now where we found the leak and what caused it was surprising. The smoke started billowing out near the driver's side door, you guessed right where the gas cap as. This may be the reason you are smelling smoke when you get in and out of your truck. We replaced the gas cap, ran the test again, same results smoking near the gas cap.

    After this we knew where the leak was coming. THE FUEL FILLER NECK where the gas cap meets the metal neck when you pump gas. It had slight rust and corrosion on the neck, so small, but enough to obstruct and prevent a proper seal on the gas cap. End of story fuel filler neck was replaced because even after it was cleaned it already deteriorated enough to prevent a good seal. Check engine light is now gone. This may or may not be your problem, but might want to mention this to your dealership, and for the love of God; GET A SMOKE TEST DONE. GOOD LUCK!
     
  4. Oct 28, 2012 at 6:14 AM
    #24
    ugmold

    ugmold [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Dave,

    They did the smoke test and found nothing. Considering the rust it looks like an awful job to take the tank down. I would guess the dealership, regardless of the source of the leak would go ahead and replace all the parts as quoted. A smaller shop may not. I was thinking the filler neck too. But you can't see it at all for an inspection.

    The odd thing about the gas smell is, it is right at the driver door, when I get out of the truck, I smell it, go the cap, nothing, underneath, nothing...or not as noticeable as right at the door.

    Was going to surrender and Trade it in. They offered $3,000 on a trade in (FU)

    Can the filler neck be replaced w/o dropping the tank?

    -Ugmold
     
  5. Oct 28, 2012 at 8:59 AM
    #25
    Toyota-Dually

    Toyota-Dually Member

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    A smoke test on my 03' double-taco showed a leak around the gas tank sender seal. But there was big rust and pitting around the seal so a new seal wouldn't be enough and if there was that much rust there then replacing the tank was the best way to go.

    This leak was of coarse the reason for my EVAP codes BUT it was also the cause of my hesitation on acceleration in warm weather. Turns out that in warm weather there is natuarly expansion and increased pressure in the tank and that is felt by the EVAP system. Without this added pressure on warm days the computer doesn't get the feedback it needs and expects to regulate fuel flow something-or-ruther correctly???:confused:

    That's the explanation I got from the techs at the dealership.

    David
     
  6. Oct 28, 2012 at 8:59 AM
    #26
    jokerj80

    jokerj80 Well-Known Member

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    this particular year model had a manufacturers defect on the filler neck. replace the filler neck and problem should be resolved.
     
  7. Oct 29, 2012 at 6:39 AM
    #27
    ugmold

    ugmold [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Can the filler neck be replaced w/o dropping the tank?
     
  8. Oct 29, 2012 at 7:49 AM
    #28
    jokerj80

    jokerj80 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure. I had this same code on my 03 and after replacing the fuel cap and fuel canister it still was not fixed. A specialist told me about the filler neck having a defect for that year model shortly after replacing the canister wich was 350 bucks down the drain. And the rear end was making a clunking noise and that did it for me. I traded the truck in. Almost curtain that the 2003 tacoma was a bad year. Had to rplace the front cv shafts and rear u joint the year before. And the emergency brake was frozen also. Needed to replace the hole cable unit wich was another 350 bucks. Good luck bro. Never again will I think of purchasing a 2003 tacoma.
     
  9. Oct 30, 2012 at 2:58 PM
    #29
    Toyota-Dually

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    My 03' has got 210,000 miles and I haven't had to do anything but brakes and exhaust. I will now have to replace the gas tank because of an EVAP leak around the sender seal not the filler neck.
    My rear end is whining loud enough to know I've got to rebuild it BUT I have been pulling a boat trailer, horse trailer and car trailer and I plow with it so I'm surprised my rear lasted this long. I have had zero transmission problems.

    Oh yeah, I did bust a bracket thing off my flywheel at 180,000 miles when I was towing a load of cut up crane scrap iron.
     
  10. Nov 4, 2012 at 11:54 AM
    #30
    ugmold

    ugmold [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I brought the truck to a local Shop that I hadn't been to before. The Service Manager seemed to be aware of this problem and we talked things thru. We decided to drop the tank and have a look. He did a smoke and pressure test, found nothing. Checked the filler neck with a pressure check found nothing. I stopped by for a look. Tank didn't look too bad. Any surface rust was cleaned up. We decided to try a new canister. He installed, and reset the code so the light was out. I drove 12 miles and smelled gas. Drove today for about 75 miles, smelled gas when I stopped. Should have drove it into a tree. $600, and still have the problem.
     
  11. Nov 4, 2012 at 3:10 PM
    #31
    hogeyphenogey

    hogeyphenogey Baby on the way and I have an access cab! Yikes!

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    Have you looked at the TOP of the tank for rot or holes? I'd also look to see if he left something undone like an evap line. I didn't think you smelled gas before the canister replacement. Get under there and see where the gas smell is from.
     
  12. Nov 5, 2012 at 7:29 AM
    #32
    ugmold

    ugmold [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I went top the garage myself and looked at the top of the tank, it looked good, any dirt a flaked paint was cleaned up and repainted.

    I did have the gas smell before, and I have spent time under the truck looking.

    Thanks
     
  13. Nov 10, 2012 at 6:14 AM
    #33
    ugmold

    ugmold [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So I still smell the gas although the light has not come back on. I thought of something else. Is/was there a little spring loaded door to cover the gas filler neck when you inserted the gas nozzle? I thought I remembered having one and it is gone, although I doubt it was air tight, I'm wondering if this is possibly the problem.
     
  14. Nov 10, 2012 at 10:03 AM
    #34
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    That flapper would have nothing to do with you smelling gas. It is internal, and not external. Have you looked under the hood as well? A cracked or broken EVAP hose under the hood would also cause a failure, as well as you smelling fuel. A proper EVAP smoke test will check not only the tank and canister, but also the under hood lines and connectors.
     
  15. Nov 10, 2012 at 11:40 PM
    #35
    jokerj80

    jokerj80 Well-Known Member

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    nice GIF sig by the way.......had this same issue with my 03. new fuel can, new gas cap, no fix. the only time i smelled gas was when the truck was not running and i walked by the gas lid. the problem was something in the filler neck was stuck open all the time and was not closing when the CPU told it to. hence the manufactures defect on the filler neck. at first i was told it was the fuel canister. i guess there is an internal check valve that can become stuck open in these models. but as i stated before i had replaced the canister and the problem was not fixxed. so my specialist(who has been a toyota mechanic for 25+ years) called a friend at a dealership and he said there was a manufacturers defect on the fuel filler neck for a curtain amount of 03's and there wasnt enough units to register an active recall. bullshit if you ask me. Just a little FYI. :jerkoff:
     
  16. Nov 11, 2012 at 6:01 AM
    #36
    ugmold

    ugmold [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Joker,

    I may go for that. Do you remember what you paid for a new filler neck and where you got it?

    -ugmold
     
  17. Nov 11, 2012 at 12:04 PM
    #37
    jokerj80

    jokerj80 Well-Known Member

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    accually i traded the truck in for my current one. so i never fixed it. best of luck to ya.
     
  18. Nov 11, 2012 at 4:04 PM
    #38
    Toyota-Dually

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    A smoke test showed I was leaking around sender assy. Looking at the tank from the outside will not tell you anything about the rust under the seals.
    The first photo shows a new tank that I just about to put in, the bottom shows my leaky tank. From the outside both look rust free. BUT once you pull the seals you'll see the pitted rust. It is not a light skim of rust you can sand off.
    My new tank seal surface has a smooth polished finish and has to be this way for the seal to make a firm occlusive seat. You can see just how pitted the old tank surface was in the close-up.
    If this was a 70's or older car then I would have re-used the old tank, just sand and use alot of thick sealer but that won't work with todays' pressurized and EVAP system. [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Nov 11, 2012 at 4:24 PM
    #39
    Toyota-Dually

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    UGMOLD, when my dealer (Westboro Toyota) told me that I would have to replace the tank they quoted $1300 but said I could do it myself for less than half that.
    I did it myself - I paid about $500 for an OEM tank at the dealer and another $75 for some internal parts and screws and clamps.
    Did Ernie back show you a breakdown of that $2400 estimate???
     
  20. Nov 12, 2012 at 6:37 AM
    #40
    ugmold

    ugmold [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hi folks,
    As the thread grows longer I find myself repeating what I have already posted, I REALLY APPRECIATE all the posts but if you don't read the other posts then it makes it hard to move forward.

    This has been a pretty frustrating predicament. From the dealership on down everyone is guessing. I have had 2 smoke tests, one by Toyota Dealer, once by local mechanic whom I trust more, the tank has been taken down for visual inspection, the neck has been pressurized. We guessed at the canister and replaced it. Now I'm guessing the filler neck because of joker's post, although he never had the work done.

    I can't afford a new one considering Job Stability and the F'ing economy, so I need to get this fixed.

    The dealership I bought it from Ernie Boch Jr, is terrible. They wanted $2400 guessing what to do, and of course it would that price solved or not. I asked about a Trade in and their Sales Force are basically retarded.

    Rant Over. I appreciate the support.
     
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