2009 2.7 Engine Squeak/Squeal

Change out the tensioner first and go from there, I would think.

 

The bitch is back.

Squealing when cold and/or and this belt, tensioner and upper idler is not a year old. It doesnt seem to affect much, but it is annoying until it gets a bit warmed up. I recently replace the water pump and probably got some on the pulleys but I would have figured that stuff would be all washed off by now.

I think that because there is no splash barrier, that excessive water can get to the belts and cause the noise too. I might just have to pull it all off, clean it, and put the old belt on but woudlnt you think this problem would be self-correcting or is it always an issue once its happened? Does part of the belt get glazed? Its a dayco, but thats the only one I could get.

Thoughts?

 

I found the issue. It seems the water pump gasket on the gates I replaced is weeping at the bottom, and onto the inner ribs of the belt. I didn't like the paper one gates provided and reused the neoprene/metal one that was on the truck. I suppose that is my fault. Now I'll be going to the dealership to get an oem gasket so long as its not a defective new water pump. At least its pretty easy in comparison and I don't have to change out the tstat too. How auto parts that used to be quality have become so cheaply made.

 

Does anyone know if there is a torque sequence for the 2tr-fe water pump? I bought a new one today and got a dealership OEM gasket. Its metal and sturdy. I dont want to do this again for another 100k. If I am seeing it correctly, it looks like my new gates pump was bad from the get go.

J

 

Look folks! Tensioner idler pulley, 18 ducats from Rockauto.com

IDLER/TENSIONER PULLEY

PART NUMBER: 89175

Scrait off the dayco website. Whodathunkit?

Sad part is the lower pulley is like 70 bux. Upper is 40. Dont know why they cant use the same damn pulley on all three locations. Must be three engineers at toyota working in different departments.

So, I replaced a gates pump that was leaking. I put a A1Cardone from Advanced Auto on it. Now I have a sound thats hard to describe. Almost a moan. I have driven about 150 miles thus far. No leaks, temps good, seems ok, but WTF.

So now its been raining and the upper idler pulley that I replaced when I did the tensioner months ago is making a shriek like a banshee for about 2 minutes. I sprayed some windex on it just to see what would happen it boy did it get lound. It almost sounds like two metal surfaces rubbing together. I'm not sure if the leak from the water pump that was throwing coolant in a ring around the belt line may have infected the bearing. I had replaced it with a Gates. I still have the OEM/original which feels fine in my hands and is definitely a superior product. I have lost faith in gates pulleys, esp when they are exposed to the elements (unlike behind a timing cover). I also noticed my gates serp belt has become tacky on the smooth side which may be attributing to the squeel. It goes away once warm, but this shouldn't happen at all. Fortunately, I have the OEM belt which looks great and a dayco premium poly rib which I replaced because I thought the last time I jinxed the belt...

So now I'm going to put the oem idler puley back on and put the oem belt on and see what happens. When the weather is dry, I dont get this issue, but its driving me friggn bonkers. There shouldnt be any friction on the back side of a belt. I'm hoping that it stops doing this. I think I'll be getting OEM stuff from this point because Gates, Dayco, and most of the brick and mortar stuff is Chinese. Not to knock their quality, but you kinda have to. Its the only things that have changed.

I think that more than half of the folks with squeaky pulleys are experiencing water pump leakage that wears the belt prematurely. I dont know. We'll find out. Its such a simple motor, and a simple problem and the fix is haunting me. If you have Ghost, you have everything I suppose.

I can swap this stuff in my sleep now. I can live with the piston slap, but this squeal is oh so maddening.

Merry Krampus.

J

Anyone want to buy a new set of Wagner rear shoes with a springs and parts kit? I give you good price. I dont think I'll ever need to replace them after taking the drums off and seeing about 2% wear. Hit me up at jeremycwatts@yahoo.com

 

...and I forgot the best part. I just paid the truck off and this squeal just got louder. Go figure.

 

And furthermore and a opinions welcome...the procedure to replace the water pump says to remove the tensioner and the alternator to get to one 10mm bolt on the left side. I found that if I use my 12" braker bar on a 14mm socket, I can prop that against the pulley on the alt and reach the bolt with a 1/4 extension. I put some cardboard between the pulley and the handle. It doesnt mar it. Its within specs on the markings for the pulley arm. You dont think I could have strained the tension on the spring do you?

 

I used a stethoscope on my idlers and found one that was just screaming at me. Planning on replacing the whole kit and caboodle, just waiting for someone to show me how with pics on here......

 

I keep forgetting I have one and how useful it would be for this. Thanks for reminding me LOL. Replacing this stuff is very straight forward. You can pull the alt through the top. You dont even have to get under the truck. Even the FSM doesn't go into any great detail.

I had to work on a buddy's Silverado 1500 last week. Part of the vetted procedure was to put a big ass wrench on the bolt holding the cooling fan and smack it as hard as you can with a hammer or bar. WTF? Now I remember why the last chevrolet we owned was a 1983.

 

So now I have a moan LOL. Car heats up fine, no issues there, but the colder it is, I get a "moan" that lasts for a couple minutes until warmed up. It doesnt do this on subsequent starts unless it sits over night. I'm thinking it goes away as the thermostat opens?

Research says the p/s could be needing a cleaning. Anyone have a power steering pump moan? I'm finding it hard to believe the water pump bearing is bad although it was the last thing done to the car. I thought perhaps it was air purging from the thermostat making that sound, but its so hard to describe. Its not a squeak or a click but a moan from the drivers side. I'm wondering if this new pump could be pulling enough fluid to make the thermostat turn into a reed. The tstat I installed didnt have a jiggle pin, but a tiny bleed hole. I installed that in the up position like a jiggle pin.

Everything "runs" fine and once I get going and the truck is warmed up its no problems or noises at all but all these damn sounds from the moan, to drive shaft whine, to the odd clunk of the rear brakes is driving me insane to not at least know what is making the noise.

I had to replace the Gates from Rockauto with an Advanced pump. Rockauto just got me the warranty replacement today so now I have a spare and in looking at it, I swear this gates pump is a 1st tier quality whereas the original one they sent was of lesser build quality. The included gasket, the studs, and the pump body itself are nicer. Are there knockoff parts of knockoff parts?

 

Funny, its coldest out today and it didn't make any of those sounds....go figure. Maybe its belt harmonics.

 

So the squeal had come back and I could time it with the belt using the gates brand markings on it. It only does this when its been wet, but not when cold. I have no symptoms when the weather is dry. I slapped the dayco belt on there and the sound went away until I noticed it 30 miles later OMW to work. This dayco belt has almost no use on it. I checked all the pulleys and they all seem to ride smooth as butter but there is a noticable bit of play in the pulley on the tensioner arm. Its a gates replacement I got from rockauto and its only a year or so old. There is a light squeel on acceleration, but not at idle or decel. I read in another thread that there was some kind of TSB to put shims on the tensioner pulleys for the 4.0 to make it align further back on the tensioner arm pulley. I'm sure thats just a washer of the right thickness.

I noticed from day 1 when I installed the new tensioner that the belt looked like it sat more forward on the roller than the one I removed (assuming OEM although I bought the truck used). No noise, no problem but then when it got cold, things changed.

Could it be that the tensioner is weak enough, or the play there, or even the position of the belt is causing premature wear of that bearing and resulting in noises? I find it very hard to believe that this belt is worn that much, it looks brand new. It is almost new. The tensioner is a single bearing roller and if you did put unbalanced tension on it, could stress one side of the bearing and squeak. If you look at its design, the bearing does sit far enough inside it that pressure from having the belt too far out would not put a flat force on the races.

Is there supposed to be any play in the bearing on the arm? I'm ordering the dayco replacement pulley. Its cheap enough and worth an experiment to replace and perhaps shim this pulley. My thinking is that its already worn, but when I accel, the tension releases on that arm slightly enough to allow the noise because its directly after the crank pulley. Thoughts?

This noise is driving me insane, and I consider myself a decent mechanic. I just cant stick a stethoscope down there with the engine running, but none of the other ones are rough or have any play whatsoever.

 

Bought the Dayco tensioner pulley from AZ for 25 (as well as a new belt for cya). This one has no effective play in the bearing unlike the ones currently on the tensioners.

 

I understand your frustrations. I fought belt squeal a lot last year. The OEM belt was always silent, but when I replaced it with a Dayco, the trouble started. The belt would chirp every time the printed label would pass the upper idler area.

Then once my incompetent dealer sprayed the frame coating all over the pulleys, it became a stuck pig and completely ruined the belt. No cleaning would fix it, so I scrubbed up the pulleys and put a Gates on there. Thankfully it's been quiet with that belt.

One thing I noticed: the OEM belt was so short that it just has enough clearance to slip onto an idler with the tensioner fully retracted. Once it's in place the tensioner arm is only about 1/4" from fully compressed. Tight stuff. The Dayco belt was so much longer that the arm would be about halfway through its travel (where you think it should normally be). However... it would chirp. The Gates belt I got is about as short as the OEM was, so it's back to super high tension and silent.

My tensioner was replaced by the dealer when I bought the truck. I pulled the belt off 2 days later to swap the lower idler and even when new the tensioner pulley had more play in it than I would expect. It's never made noise though.

That Gates lower idler though... I had to shim that out to get it to line up with the belt right.

My truck has a moan on cold startup too. I have no idea what causes it, and it goes away after a couple minutes every time. I've come to accept that this truck just makes lots and lots and lots of noises; they're usually not indicative of a failure, but rather someone just couldn't figure out how to solve them in pre-production NVH testing. Even my Civic, the famed embodiment of road noise, was quieter than this truck.

 

Thanks for the info. That confirms that when I put the dayco belt on yesterday, it went over the pullies so easily. I still have the OEM belt....but its the gates belt that also squealed too. I'm wondering if it got too juiced up from being sprayed with coolant. Then again, if the OEM belt is that much tighter, then it would put more pressure on the tensioner, which seems like it would be preferred. I'll measure them against one another.
This makes me want to go return the belt and get one from the dealership.

But online says $80.00 for the OEM? WTAF?

 

Installed belt and pulley, no sound thus far, but I'll have to give it a day or two. Its dry out....

I did notice that the dayco pulley sits more forward than the gates pulley, thus centering the belt on the bearing by about .25in. Comparing the two I can see that the bearing in the gates is that much more forward. This could cause biased wear on the races, but both bearings seemed tight enough to the touch. Its when its on the nipple on the tensioner arm that you can feel any movement, and I think that seat is pretty poor design.

 

Yeah I won't buy the OEM belt. The dealer wanted almost $120 and they would have to order it from California or some place. The gates was less than $35 at napa and just as tight.

FWIW my upper idler and tensioner are Toyota parts, and my lower idler is my Napa/gates.

 

Well its been wet, cold, and over a week with no more squeals. I had no idea a belt could cause that much noise. I have never had a belt do that, but since this thing has had 3 belts juiced up with coolant, each time, it seems to destroy the belt completely.

Now I just have to figure out what causes that moan on a cold start. I wonder what the likelyhood the bearing in this water pump is doing it. I figure its the wp bearing, some kind of harmonics created by the thermostat since its a bypass type, or coincidentally the power steering pump. It doesnt really do it when its above 50 outside and once warmed up, doesnt at all. I'm thinking since I didnt have the sound until I put this second replacement pump on there, its probably something to do with that. Its very hard to pinpoint, even with a stethoscope. I dont have any overheat condition problems or coolant loss and free spinning the pump pulley feels normal. I really dont want to have to do this job yet again so soon, but at least I have a spare pump sitting on the shelf.

 

Glad your truck is being (mostly) quiet now. That kind of thing drives me up a wall.

I think that moan comes from the power steering pump myself. I flushed out what was probably the factory fluid last winter at about 130k miles (it was black,thick, and nasty) and the cold start moan isn't half as loud as it used to be.

 

I guess I will do the PS pump flush. I saw a few threads about it causing moans. It sounds like my truck has indigestion from the description. Perhaps I should fill it with pepto.