2009 4 cyl. rough start when cold

Its still throwing cyl 1 and 2 misfire with good coils in there! I'm taking it back in for a pressure test and boroscope to see if it's head gasket related. $120 for the test...

 

Bad news today... I opened the hood to install a new PCV valve and my coolant was almost dry!!! Head gasket for sure but It hasn’t overheated yet. I called my mechanic and even worse news...the 2009 2.7l base model requires the entire engine be removed to get the head off. They estimate 32 hours labor and that doesn’t include the machine shop fees. He doesn’t even want to do the job because of the complexity. He recommended buying a used Japanese motor for $2100 or trying blue devil. I’m pretty bummed right now. Only 108,000 miles

 

Wow. Before I did nothing else I'd refill the coolant and get a compression test done - no sense getting all wound up until you have the facts. Quick and cheap and gives you a fact in hand to make a logical decision ..... Perhaps it's not the head gasket ????

Side questions for the knowledgeable on head gaskets ..... you have to pull the engine for the i4 to swap ??? OMG.

 

We are now 95% sure head gasket. Now the question is replace with a jasper or overhaul existing for $1800?

 

I've had condensation under my oil caps over the years. Just short drives can cause this. I'd get the compression test.

 

Yeah the mikyness under the oil cap is normal

 

So got the pressure test done...
Cylinder 1: 140
Cylinder 2: 120
Cylinder 3: 120
Cylinder 4: 140

Mechanic suspects gasket leak between 2&3 or burnt valves. Quoted $1600 done deal. Should I have him swap the water pump too?

 

First off - did he do a wet test on the Cylinders ?? This will eliminate whether it's the rings or not. If it's not the rings then you can put a vacuum gauge on the engine at min idle and you might get some data on the valves. IF the vacuum is dead steady the valves may be OK as well.

A Pressure leak down test on the Radiator should indicate Gasket issues as well.

I understand that you want to get it fixed, but I just think a good mechanic would want to be sure what the issue is , if possible, before "recommending" a $1600 Job. JMHO

 

Thanks for the advice canufixit. I will follow up with them tomorrow and ask for the details on the above test. I got some insane quotes around 4K from various mechanics before I found Tashmo. He specializes in Japanese engines and his reviews are really good so we’ll see...

 

Quite unfortunate. I would overhaul your cooling system, including the fan clutch assembly to avoid future issues..

 

OP, Any update?

 

OK so here are some progress pics of the head which just got installed today. Turns out I had a water pump leak as well so he's charging another $127.00 to replace.

 

Nice Pics! Thanks!. Do you actually find the leak??

 

Hey OP, how did your engine rebuild go? I too got P-codes 0301 & 0302, a rough idle at each start up to clear 20 sec later when warm, NO issues when driving but there is a radiator fluid loss with no obvious escape point on my 09 Taco w/215k. The radiator losing coolant was out of the blue & the engine overheated during this 3rd episode which picked up a P0117 code. The coil bank with all plugs were replaced 2x. First, coils 1 & 3 then coils 1-4, ten mos later, (this past Aug). Now, 2 mo later, it's happening again. I can't afford to keep throwing parts at this, my repair shop needs to get beyond being scan code part replacers (as their fix) & diagnose the real issue. Any mechanic here that can provide insight, please advise.

 

If it’s shaking again, it might be worth checking the ignition coils too. They can cause rough starts if they’re failing. Also, keep an eye on any vacuum leaks; those can mess with the air-fuel mixture.

 

Thanks Carbender - the ignition coils were replaced 2x, I will ask my mechanic to swap them around to test for the P301 & P302 codes that came up this time. It shouldn't be the issue tho, all coils were replaced 2 months ago. Would a vacuum leak create the coil "missing" affect when I'm driving? If so, it drives very smoothly, it's only at the start up do I feel the shaking which then clears in 15 - 20 seconds. Do you know how a leaking radiator impacts the coils? I can't find where it's leaking externally out from. Could the coolant seep into a coil from a bad head gasket? If so, I would think I'd see some type of effect when driving? Any ideas?

 

Adding some back details to this on-going saga should anyone be looking at this same problem. In 2018 I bought my 09 Tacoma from a single owner (a VT to FL snowbird) with 117K on it, with I'd say, 80% highway miles. I've added 90K to that before these code issues popped up & 10K during it. This high mileage truck is new territory for me but hey, it's a Toyota!

Now, my last visit for the P301 & 302 codes, I questioned the valve gasket (it as was replaced prior to all the code issues coming up a month or two later). They chose to replace it because "I" provided the part & couldn't guarantee the quality of the part. (first repair) Instead of swapping the coils around to test them, they chose to replace it for the 4th time w/new spark plugs (they pay for the plugs, 2 coils w/install cost & I pay for the other 2 coils w/install cost - each time they do). (2nd repair). Next initial guess, it was the water pump & thermostat but upon further inspection, they then claimed with certainty that it was a corroded metal/plastic feed line attached to the lower Thermostat causing the radiator leak. (3rd repair) I wasn't there to see it & I have used this shop for 20+ years so I trusted what they said as they got the part from the dealership. Thing is, I never saw any radiator fluid on the ground had it leaked from there. Now after 1K of work, diag costs & parts cost later...the same codes pop up the next day. I called the shop to advise & am waiting for a call back. They obviously don't think the two issue are related.

Milton's was coming & I live near the path of it but now my truck is having worse starting issues. In a state of urgency, I took it to a shop closer to home who did a FREE diag on it. This is new territory, there's nothing different that wasn't already replaced & under warranty. The new shop agreed the P301 & 302 codes are coil problems but went further (having new coils) & found a head gasket leak (in 3 hours time or so). The leak dripped into the coil chambers causing the start up misfire but burned off as the truck warmed up...so no misfires when driving it. I could pay the 5K to replace the gasket, rent a car for a month or buy a $17 bottle of fast acting head gasket sealant...guess which one I chose in my state of need? I immediately added it & took a 30 min drive...the misfire stopped at the next start up & it continues without hesitation to date.

SO, I'm vexed that my shop that didn't look beyond the code & coils after the 2nd replacement & kept throwing parts at it...which still didn't fix the issue. Keep them coming back w/a 2yr warranty to replace more parts, must be their thought. This repair told me TONS, my shop's mechanics are "scan readers & parts replacers" with little "go beyond the obvious" diag skills, especially w/older vehicles. An expensive lesson. SO I now debate, should I get rid of the truck or keep it to get this money out of it...or have I already done so getting a 100K out of it? I have 1y/o tires on it & the engine runs like new now. Plus, I know the symptoms. I also know that I should leave oil changes & simple work to the old shop (at a cheaper rates) & engine diags to the new shop w/more expert mechanics but higher hourly rates.

End of rant.

 

I had this happen on a 2012 4cyl and it turned out to be just spark plugs which was a shocker for me.
I guess I got lucky but "water pump leaking ALSO" would be a big red flag snapping in the wind for me me if facing a head rebuild , especially if dealing with a "Shotgun Diagnostic" "expert mechanic" with not much experience or a "knows it all" attitude .
stopleak is a very very bad idea, if a gasket leaks water into a cylinder it could cause hydrolock and bend a rod
hope my experience can help others https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/random-cold-start-stumble-code-for-cyl-1-misfire.837722/
but if I was OP , I would be pulling together all my cognitive "Confirmation Bias" to rationalize what all happened, not saying it wasn't a head gasket , just hard for me to believe

 

I appreciate your information there Dustrider. I had to take the quickest route with Hurrican Milton barring down on us, the truck was getting me to a safe place. Also, with the 15yo Tacoma having 217k on it, is it worth putting 5k into it? You did answer one question for me, I should rid myself of it sooner than later. Looking at some Lexus 350's. Do you know which year's had the better models?

Thanks again!