2011 deletes some manuals, adds automatics

I shouldn't get involved but I can't help it :/

Both have their advantages, both have their disadvantages. I will state first, I am an advocate that it should be mandatory for all licensed drivers to learn and be able to safely drive a standard transmission. If they are unable/unwilling to for whatever reason, then they should have a separate class license that prohibits them from being able to drive a standard car. I don't mean this to be insulting to those that choose or are unable too... but simply to prevent the situation that was brought up earlier of "little miss 16 year old Suzey rolling backward down a hill into a car" or other worse situations.

I also do believe driving a manual transmission (at least in older vehicles) gives me a better tactile feel, more 'in tune' with the beast. I feel like (and do) have full control over every aspect of how the car behaves. From controlling the revs, which gear you're in, what revs you're at when you shift, when to apply power or disengage it at will (read launching, ect). You also gain the ability to use the starter in bad situations (engine died while in water for example you can "start" yourself out of it). You can also start the car with a dead battery through the old push start techniques. You can not do this with an auto... it's not physically possible (unless you potentially had some unique lockup converter on first that I've never seen). It also forces you to be constantly aware of what your drivetrain is doing, what revs and power you're throwing down on curves, ect.

All that said, standards do have downfalls. In stop/go traffic the clutch can become heavy (even to the point of where your leg begins to cramp and you can miss the clutch). Before you throw out the "work out more" situation... consider 6 puck clutches and performance applications.... then say it. Another issue in this situation is some of the modern hydrolic clutches have shortfalls. For instance, my G35 6MT coupe's clutch release springs would overheat... sometimes preventing the clutch to disengage at all. I know, pretty sad for an Infiniti eh? Also, let's face it who wants to clutch and shift while towing? Unless your rev matches are the epic shit... you're going to put more stress on the drivetrain than you may intend, while the auto will always rev match and gain the optimal rev matching for least drivetrain shock. Plus, the auto trans coolers will assist in keeping the temps down better than mots manuals (even though it's not as required on a stick). Also, most trucks just aren't as fun to romp around in with a stick like your average sports car. Yes it has an appeal, but the truck's first focus is a truck... hauling/wheeling/towing/ect.

Now, some advantages for the autos. First, for the racers out there... drag/straight line driving most modern auto's (even rebuilt race purpose older 700r4's and such) will shift faster and more presice than you'll ever hit with a manual. Also, why do the supercars (including the new GT-R) use tiptronic padleshifting autos? It's faster, smoother, precise rev matching, and less drivetrain shock with high torque. They also allow for most autocross driving to be just fine, and allow your gear and rev control through the corners. Yes, there's no clutch, so drifting, launching, and other things become more difficult (though the GT-R has launch control even if it's faulty). Auto's are pretty nice on a DD... makes for a more relaxing drive after a 12 hour shift at work in traffic while your'e trying to cool off in 115F weather with the A/C on max. It's also nice on the way back from some hiking or the gym if it's your bag. Wheeling... yes clutches can give you some advanced techniques on the trails.... but let's face it low auto gearing (or even better drop a Martin Crawl Box on it too) with no clutch makes going over difficult rock obsticals and such a lot easier.... allowing you to focus more on wheel placement, speed, and less on trying to keep your face from going red with embarrassment when you dump the clutch either slamming into the rock/tree or killing the engine and rolling back banging your sliders up. It's basically an additional insurance policy to prevent damage on the trail.

Second Gen Taco specific:
Let's face it... the stock 6 speed kind of sucks. I can't speak on the 5 speeds as I have not driven them. I do know that the URD short shifter is supposed to improve the shifting feel a lot.... so that may balance some of that out. The clutch pedal squeeking is annoying and a huge oversight from "toyota quality" but not really a deal killer. The through-out bearing issue on the 6 speeds cracking bell housings.... is however. It seems there are far more issues with the taco's 6speeds than the auto's have... at least around these boards. Which sucks as a lot of people buy the manual for reliability. Also let's not forget the unexperienced or hard clutch abusers will be replacing those probably more frequently than doing a flush every 100k on an auto.

Don't get me wrong... I'd love a 6 speed with a urd short shifter and urd mark III supercharger to go with it. However on a truck the urd mark III and valve body upgraded auto makes a bit more sense... for me.

I'll still have my 280z with a chevy v8 that will have a T-56 (eventually will anyway) for the weekend clutch pounding excitement... that the taco will honestly be hard to ever get to that level on the street. However, the Taco will get me anywhere, everyday, with damn near a 99.99% chance of not failing me. (excluding red light runners smashing into your beloved 08.... :cough: )


In short... it's all personal preferences that taylor entirely to your specific needs and desires for your driving experience. I do agree it's a sad trend that most vehicles are abandoning standards in the states. Personally on smaller sportier nimble cars I wouldn't want an auto for anything in the world. However on a Tacoma and other trucks... it does make a lot of sense in my book. Plus, Toyota is still covering those of us that do love a stick in the morning...

Also... I believe defensive and aggressive driving through professional means should be a mandatory requirement for gaining a license. I also believe getting a license should be much more difficult than it is. Those are some things we should learn from Germany imho. That would save more lives than any auto vs stick could ever do. Paying attention to the damn road will do even more.

 

Companies like Toyota love autos because they work so much better with all the electronics and onboard computers that monitor the modern engine. The human element that a manual introduces just isn't predictable. For sake of warranty and engine wear, Toyota would rather you just push a pedal and let the computer do everything else according to its preprogrammed instruction set.

 

Personally, I think you all suck.

 

Leatherneck!
let me say that I have an automatic.. I am not handicaped, but age and the Corps did wear on my knees and ankles. too many times a jumping off 5 tons plus other various and assundry things.... Age does change things a little....

Yes, in the UK and some other countries manual trannies are the norm, and I had a similiar experience once with a rental company...
The little chickadee got real quiet when I said my knees won't take kindly to your attitude since they served in the Marines...

J

 

My chauffeur prefers the automatic.

 

What a bs thread this has become. Take it elsewhere and keep the 2011 discussion here.

 

Cheapness? It can't be that some folks prefer it, like the control, the durability, the simplicity. Nope just cheap. wow.

 

Well those who prefer it need not infer that those who do not are possibly handicapped.....
When discussing Toyota transmissions, I see no reason to think that their manual trans are any more reliable, or long lasting than their autos. I have owned and equal number of standard trans to autos, and there are as many or more situations when an auto allows better vehicle control. I have never seen a clutch go over 200k kms under hard use, I have seen abused auto's last over 300k with just fluid changes.
Yes sticks are simpler, so are carburetors, horse drawn buggies, and go karts.
I think that Toyota will sell way more 4 cylinders with the option of an auto. Even if it is the terribly out of date 4 speed. I much prefer the efficiency of the 4, especially when I'm towing. Having to repeatedly downshift to maintain speed on inclines, or run a lower gear to save shifting, and waste fuel is not worth the hassle. Again, if it was a modern 6 speed trans, there would be no performance or mileage penalty.

 

My horse drawn cart has a 6 speed and i have never
needed to replace the clutch

 

You are comparing a wearable item (clutch) to an entire transmission? The clutch isn't the transmission. Just part of it in a sense.

Thats like saying your rims laster several years longer than your tires. It isn't comparing the same thing.

 

At any rate.. I'm just glad I got my BSP.... have to say it again

 

Agreed, a new clutch isn't anywhere near the same price as a rebuilt auto. My experience is that autos die not long after 100k miles. Your experience may vary.
Besides, I find the manual makes driving more fun. That's enough for me

 

harder to get road head with a standard

 

x2

 

Ain't that the truth!

Even makes holding hands a little harder.

 

my ex used to hold my hand as I shift, lol, and she got to the point where she could tell when I would shift and would do it for me...she could tell when I clutched

 

Yeah, one of my exes would. But not this girl. lol But sometimes (as long as I'm driving straight) I'll shift with my left hand.