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2017 Full Active Audio Upgrade, keeping entune

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by dvwalker, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. Nov 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM
    #1
    dvwalker

    dvwalker [OP] Well-Known Member

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    After a few months of thinking, planning, and mining all the voices in my head, think I'm about ready to pull the trigger on my audio upgrade for my 2017 DC. Lots of good info in this forum, opinions and some pretty cool install work to boot. Want to thank all the inmates who have made a contribution to the audio thread, and challenged my thinking. I'm no expert, not even close, but simply want better sound quality in front cockpit from the Entune unit. Appears everyone has a different path forward and it's been a lot fun to read your choices. Thought I'd share my objectives and choices (so far)...

    My objectives are fairly simple but do bring some challenges:

    1) high quality sound over entire frequency response range
    2) retain factory entune HU for OEM look and integration features
    3) professional install, familiar with dsp/amp, and metered tuning

    I've prioritize my dollar spends in the following order:
    1. amp
    2. dsp
    3. replace front door speakers and dash tweeters
    4. deadening
    5. absorption
    6. sub-woofer
    7. rear door speakers
    I want to fill out cabin with descent acoustic range (~35 to 22k Hz). I also want components that will work well together with response range and rms power match. My main sound concern is the front cockpit as this is where my passenger and I are sitting and where the sound will be focused. Center stage will be the drivers seat. The bass and treble frequencies are almost completely detuned out of Entune HU output, as a result the factory speakers are designed to only handle very low amount of power. The DSP can re-add these frequencies from the crappy factory output.

    My component choices to meet objectives with estimated spend. I'm going with Hertz and Audison brands, I know these brands are more expensive but quality is second to none.
    1. amp - Hertz HDP5 class D, 5-ch, 950w, 4 ohm, rms 60w x 4 + 310w x 1, $600
    2. dsp - Audison bit Ten, 32 bit, 147 MHz clock speed, each output channel highly configurable, $350
    3. front door 6.5" speakers - Hertz Mille mp165.3 woofers, response 40-5k Hz (Fs 70?), ~$300
    4. front tweeters - Hertz Mille mp25.3, response 1.4k-22k Hz, ~$100
    5. deadening - Metra ballastic bulk kit to cover rear panel, both doors and entire floor, ~$300
    6. sound absorption - Juke pad for floor, ~$100
    7. sub-woofer 10" - Hertz DS 250, rms 200w, response 32-400 Hz, ~$130
    8. rear door 6.5" speakers - kicker ksc674, 2-way, HU output to drive, ~$72
    20161119_162846_resized.jpg

    The amp will go under passenger seat, and dsp will be under driver seat. Together they will be mounted to a one piece custom metal plate to avoid any drilling thru the floor. Sub will go in the passenger side rear storage area using custom built wood cabinet with carpet exterior. This will retain the handy driver side storage bin that I use for my recovery gear.

    I keep going back and forth spending any $'s replacing rear speakers, given quality gain will be minimal plus will not have passengers in the rear. Since I'm adding deadening to rear door figure why not since the speaker install will be fast and easy, hence the slap in $50 kicker 6.5" 2-way's.

    Will try to post some pictures in the coming weeks as the install progresses.

    IMG_0580.jpg

    Build pictures starting at post 25, jump click here
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
    licktheenvelope and GD Tech like this.
  2. Nov 6, 2016 at 4:57 PM
    #2
    SlowComa666

    SlowComa666 Well-Known Member

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    those off-axis measurements... wow. good luck

    also, how can they say that 6.5" goes down to 40Hz. it has a 70Hz Fs....

    it's -10db by 40Hz
     
  3. Nov 6, 2016 at 6:40 PM
    #3
    dvwalker

    dvwalker [OP] Well-Known Member

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    hey slowcoma, very good call out. These are indeed compromise woofers with a high Fs , but also in the lower-dollar range and 3rd in my dollar spend order. I think the Fs spec is measured in free-air?? So I believe the vehicle enclosure will play a big part in the tuning and allow these to be pushed, we'll see. Everything is relative, but compared to the factory speakers there should be no comparison...
     
  4. Nov 6, 2016 at 6:50 PM
    #4
    SlowComa666

    SlowComa666 Well-Known Member

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    Fs is always measured free-air. i just don't like their literature lying about the frequency response.

    they will get better in the doors, cabin gain will help boost the low end a bit...probably.

    agreed, anything is better than the stock drivers
     
  5. Nov 6, 2016 at 7:26 PM
    #5
    SlowComa666

    SlowComa666 Well-Known Member

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    you sure you wouldn't be happier with raw home drivers vs overpriced car audio?

    you are going DSP and per channel amplification. you can get far better spec'd 6.5-7" drivers for less than $300

    probably same with the tweeters.
     
  6. Nov 6, 2016 at 8:32 PM
    #6
    dvwalker

    dvwalker [OP] Well-Known Member

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    to be honest these speakers have been my hardest decision and the massive price range with the 6.5 -7" driver crowd doesn't help. Were you thinking home ceiling speakers? I'm all ears and do appreciate any suggestions in that lower response range (40 to 5k) or better? Many of these online sites that sell car audio speakers don't even show T/S parameters, which makes comparison difficult.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  7. Nov 6, 2016 at 9:30 PM
    #7
    SlowComa666

    SlowComa666 Well-Known Member

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    not sure about the depth in the 2017 models but

    http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rs180-4-7-reference-woofer-4-ohm--295-374

    http://www.parts-express.com/aurum-cantus-ac-180f1-7-woofer--296-412

    those are decent/nice woofers. plenty more to choose from though, just need to know the depth restriction.

    tweeters, well there's a ton.

    seeing as they are dash mount, you may want to run a fullrange driver. it will allow you to cross them lower to get the soundstage higher.

    how big can you go in the dash? 2-2.5" ?

    few spots for raw drivers

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-drivers/

    http://www.parts-express.com/cat/hi-fi-woofers-subwoofers-midranges-tweeters/13

    http://meniscusaudio.com/

    and if you wanna go super cheap http://www.mcmelectronics.com/category/Speaker-Components/0000000210
     
  8. Nov 7, 2016 at 5:31 AM
    #8
    dvwalker

    dvwalker [OP] Well-Known Member

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    well learned something new today, parts-express dot com, very nice site with a ton of audio bits, good search and they show T/S parms for each speaker, thanks slowcoma. Not to mention prices...

    depth? Without the door panel off and tape...I know the hertz are good to go with 2.91" (74mm), ********* folks are using a driver with 2.85" (72mm) depth. Noticed a lot of nice spec'd woofers on parts express but with >3" depth, devil is in the details.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  9. Nov 7, 2016 at 6:43 AM
    #9
    SlowComa666

    SlowComa666 Well-Known Member

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    yessir. i just hate to see people buy overpriced car audio drivers. especially in your case where you are going full active.
     
    dvwalker[OP] and manethon like this.
  10. Nov 7, 2016 at 8:46 AM
    #10
    dmb1650

    dmb1650 Well-Known Member

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    Any reason for the 5 channel amp? I don't see a subwoofer in you list. Are you planning on one down the road if needed?

    I'm not running a sub yet either. I want one but really haven't needed one with my upgrades.
     
  11. Nov 7, 2016 at 6:27 PM
    #11
    dvwalker

    dvwalker [OP] Well-Known Member

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    That was the thought, an extra $100 for 5th channel does give the sub option down the road. I suspect though I'll be happy enough with the bass from the front door woofer speakers. We'll see very soon
     
  12. Nov 7, 2016 at 7:28 PM
    #12
    SOSHeloPilot

    SOSHeloPilot My 1st Muscle Car

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    Missing My Last Tacoma --- Had 11 Toyota trucks in the past and many other Toyota cars too.
  13. Nov 15, 2016 at 2:27 PM
    #13
    fergsonfire

    fergsonfire Electrical Guru

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    if you are going to spend the money to go hertz with a bit ten and not go sub I question spending all the money to go hertz/audison at all. Even a lost cost woofer like an Image Dynamics ID10-D2 V4 ($120-130) will make a dramatic difference on your sound and not just from cranking it up. Clearly sound quality is important to you based on what components you want so why not go full range by having the sub to start. Even on rock music having the sub for drums and bass makes a significant difference in overall sound quality.
     
  14. Nov 15, 2016 at 4:01 PM
    #14
    SlowComa666

    SlowComa666 Well-Known Member

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    OP is exploring less costly and more honest options. Hertz is falsely generous in their specifications [if/when you can find them]
     
  15. Nov 15, 2016 at 9:24 PM
    #15
    fergsonfire

    fergsonfire Electrical Guru

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    specs don't tell you a speakers sound... The majority of those drivers are going to require significant tuning/installation to sound decent, let alone spectacular. There are a reason higher end brands can sell and that is because of ease of implementation to get a decent quality sound. Even a well tuned Dayton system will be beat out my a moderately tuned Morel system.
     
  16. Nov 16, 2016 at 8:19 PM
    #16
    dvwalker

    dvwalker [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Quick update, all components received and install has started :thumbsup:.

    I kept going back and forth on a sub and the rear door speakers, voices in head finally talked myself into spending just a few more dollars and sacrificing the passenger side storage. The sub will fill out the missing lower Hz (35-60 Hz) and prevent pushing the front woofers lower than 60 Hz. fergsonfire hit the nail on head, just a few dollars more relatively to raise the bar even higher given all the other components.

    I did take a look at the home speakers for the doors, in summary found some with really good acoustic specs and 3-4x cheaper than the branded "audio" bits as slowcomma pointed out. But the potential issue was all these drivers had a depth greater than 3" (7.6cm). I wasn't able to definitively confirm if they would fit, that is without first taking off panels and running the tape. So I stayed with the selected Hertz gear in the front cabin. I just added the hertz 10" sub and kicker 6.5" 2-way's for rear doors, this added another $272 in parts.

    let the fun begin, can't wait to turn the knob...

    updated post #1
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  17. Nov 16, 2016 at 8:27 PM
    #17
    fergsonfire

    fergsonfire Electrical Guru

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    Should be looking for that sub to help in the 40-80hz range. 27 is super low and a lot of people cannot actually hear that, depends on your ears. Most subs unless in a tuned box are in the 60ish range for most output. Some of the better subs will play well above 100hz very well, while others will be incapable of playing above 80-100. I use a Morel Ultimo SC 102 that has a response range of 10-900hz, but that sucker is getting cut off well before 900, haha.
     
  18. Nov 17, 2016 at 10:36 AM
    #18
    Leonel

    Leonel Well-Known Member

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    Why a Bit 10 and not a Bit One?
    I'm considering a similar project with mids in the sails
     
  19. Nov 17, 2016 at 8:06 PM
    #19
    manethon

    manethon TTAS

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    the reality is only about .01% of people here can really achieve a sound the proper sound with a basic active system over passive. My experience with customers is that they struggle much more with active than they ever would have imagined.
    A bit 10 is all anyone really needs. If your an SQ competitor or really an audiophile or OCD and wants to have control over every little marginal thing then sure. GO bit1
     
  20. Nov 17, 2016 at 8:58 PM
    #20
    Leonel

    Leonel Well-Known Member

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    Definitely OCD !In the 2012 Tacoma that i just traded in for my new 17 I was running a DEH 80 PRS , set up 3 ways active into a JL HD900/5 to old school Q series MB Quarts and a JL sub and you are right , it took a while to tune right but it was well worth it , I'm sure the Bit One is a lot more work to tune .
    What are the main differences between the bit 10 and the bit one?can you output 4 channels (tweet/mid/woof/sub) with the Bit 10? can you plug an external HD into it with other format files(AIFF,WAV)at 44.1/16?
    Thanks
     

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