2023 vs 2024

This man made the right choice. 40k for a midsized truck... 3G Taco

50+k??? I'm going Ranger Raptor or Full-size everyday of the week.

 

This is my heaven!

 

Sticking strictly to 3rd vs 24 4th gen: the 3rd gen is the proven veteran for whom you can trust in the game during crunch time. The 24 is the younger, stronger and more athletic rookie that you cannot trust to execute when it matters most, but know in time will put the 3rd gen to pasture - Yeah, I’m glad he’s on the team but don’t give him the damn ball when it matters most.

 

I can’t wait for the 5th gen to come out…

 

So if I understand correclty, you were lugging your engine at low RPMs trying to get 3K pounds up the hill, and then had to shift to 2nd? What speeds are you driving up said hills?

My RPMs are 3-3.5K when Im towing my trailer up hills, unless its very steep and my trailer is pushing 4k pounds, then I might see 4K RPMs but thats completely reasonable and expected out of a NA v6 engine.

So you prefer low end torque of a diesel but bought a V6 tacoma. Its not the trucks fault

Any NA V6 will need higher RPMs to get a load/trailer moving up the hill. Even my 2013 chevy express with the 4.8 V8 needed to get RPMs up (3K+) when going up hills, not towing but with about 500-600 of constant weight. Chevy express RPMs were about 200 lower then if I would use my taco on same hills. So barely any difference. Is it because I have a 4.30 rear end? The lack of toque statement really makes no sense to me. My truck is modified and I do not get the feeling that it struggles at all. I barely have to press the throttle to get the truck moving. Sure, if Im pushing 4k and going up steep hills, and we have alot here, yes I might see 4K RPMs but thats completely normal.

What truck do you currently have?

 

Funny how the 3rd gen guys say the same thing about the 4th gens reliability how like us 2nd gen guys said the same thing about the 3rd gens reliability. See how y’all say and do the same thing.

 

You are making a lot of inferences, no I definitely wasn’t lugging the Tacoma up a hill. Going 3,200-4,000 up a hill in 3rd, had to downshift to second as even those rpm’s couldn’t carry the massive 3,000 lb trailer up a small hill. Currently in a ‘24 Ranger Raptor.
Also, I’m not saying the Tacoma is a piece of shit. I loved the truck, it just wasn’t great at all truck things I wanted it to do. I’d buy another absolutely, but I love the Raptor more.

 

The lack of leg room in the back seat. Why not just eliminate the rear seat and lower the price of the truck?

 

This is true for every version 1.0 product.
The Gen4 machines are essentially version 1.0 of the fourth generation.
Same as 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gens the 4th gen will have it share of bugs.

The 2023 Gen3 is the last of that line, and the end product of bug fixes.
The Gen3 is as good as it is gonna get in the 2023 models.

 

Sadly, a lot of the common problems of the model run still had 0 attention given to them even by 2023. I personally don’t think Toyota cared much about the 3rd gen at all. It didn’t get much R&D based on what changed from 2nd gen to 3rd.

 

When I went looking for a new truck earlier this year I considered a 24' Tacoma. There were things I did not like about it, such as the new body style but I figured I could get use to that. The big stopper for me was not wanting to buy a first generation turbo 4 cylinder. I opted for a still on the lot new 23' Off-road Premium.

I do hope the new turbo 4 turns out to be a success and is as dependable as the long lived 6 cylinder.

 

As I understand it, the early Gen3 had real problems with the VVT-i hardware.
Sufficient engineering changes were pushed through to solve this.

It is my understanding the late VVT-i works well and is reliable... *IF* it runs with pristine oil cleanliness.
My Toyota shop friend tells me the small oil weep from the timing cover pales compared to the BMW and others that leak like sieves.
He advises to leave it alone unless it is dropping the oil level.

There is no gasket, only a precision metal to metal surface sealed with an adhesive.
Toyota tells him the old school gasket leaked more than the metal to metal surface.

I'm in the computer business, and am well familiar with every v1.0 product having bugs that eventually get fixed.
It is the nature of the beast, and why I will never buy a v1.0 product.

 

I don't know of any issues whatsoever with VVTI on the 3rd gen. I do know that early versions of the 2GR-FE had problems with that, in like 2006 or so. But not the Tacoma 2GR-FKS.

The timing cover leak happens because of a joint between 3 surfaces that can be difficult to get perfect. Why it lasts sometimes and not others, probably has to do with vibration weakening the poorly sealed ones. There is no gasket, just RTV.

Whether the gasket leaked more than RTV isn't too relevant, because it would be a different engine design that used the gasket. Modern DOHC engines with massive timing covers to cover the block and cylinder heads will have too big of an outline to really make a gasket for, plus you have to seal up the water pump jackets and anything else that might go through the cover. So it's better to just use RTV and coat it all and then install.

 

Don't recall any issues with VVT-i on early 3rd gens. Where did you hear this?

 

Im so confused. Its a utility trailer that only weighs 3K pounds, how is that "massive"? Ive got a 6x12x7 enclosed thats got a lot of wind resistance. I tow similar weights quite often up the hills and easily can make in 3rd at 3500 RPMs or so. Seems like something was definitely wrong with your truck, I got no other explanation really. If you really had to downshift to second to get to like 5K RPMs just to carry a utility trailer that has no wind drag and only weighs 3K, than thats a miserable experience. That shouldnt happen like that. When i moved up north, i was an idiot and overloaded my trailer. It was at least 4K, maybe 4.5K. I was going through mountain passes for 10.5 hours, driving up long hills and RPMs never went over 4K in 3rd gear. There were also strong headwinds and my truck was over payload. Pretty sure you had a lemon. My truck does "truck" things all the time just fine and my truck is not stock.

You never said its a piece of shit, just said drivetrain "sucks plain and simple", which is far from true. Tons of 3rd gen taco owners up here, I talked to quite a few of them and nobody has any complaints regarding the powertrain. You are comparing a turbocharged 24 Raptor thats got 400+ tq and hp to a NA 3.5 in a tacoma... Haha. Those are 2 completely different animals.

 

Because they did not exist

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgQ8QqXotEk

00:32 design issue
01:45 older vs newer version
08:16 earlier version pin design failure
09:10 design issue on early engines
10:25 production problem
11:45 2GR-FE
12:05 production update for seizing
12:50 collar separation
17:00 production problem
19:40 redesign new style VVT-i oil control valve

The presenter points out early design and production failures.
I saw factory engineering changes when I was a Toyota wrench in the 1970s.
I see them today in computer hardware, and especially in computer software.

Design and production failures are inherent in every new product.
My VVT-i example in my 2023 is the end of bug fixes and development in the 2GR engine from 2015.

The original VVT came out in 1991 and continued to evolve.
The first VVT-i came out in the 1GR in 2002.
My 2GR-FKS came out in 2015 and has also evolved with engineering changes.
This implementation of VVT-i doesn't have the design and production problems of the earlier designs.

 

Got it.
BTW, 2gr-fks is the first in 2gr family to use vvt-iW on intake.