2nd gen manual transmission fix

hah well not quite as I had planned. The dowel pin on the passenger side was seized so had a hell of a time removing the drivetrain. Also when I finally did get it down I noticed a rear main seal leak.


I’ll try to get a seal tomorrow from the dealer and install the new clutch and clean everything up with the drive train. Having 4 shifters in the cab also complicates removal a bit.

I think the heavy flywheel will be a good selection for those with a heavier truck that goes off-roading. Will allow for more rotational mass so its not as easy to stall out and you won’t have to slip the clutch as much.

here’s a few pics of the progress. The old stock release bearing was very dry and rough to spin, and the fork did not slide the bearing smoothly on the quill shaft.










Here’s the rusted dowel pin that caused the passenger side bell housing to be what seemed like welded to the engine

 

@6 gearT444E
Rear main seal leak. How many miles you have?
Get ready for shock treatment on the cost of that seal if going OEM...

 

55k miles. I can’t believe the seal will be much more than $50?? I have the truck torn apart at my shop

 

I believe I payed around $60 and think that is a lot, particularly since I have a bad habit of ruining them on the first attempt... The OEM is part number 90311-A0006

 

I don't get it.

Rear main seals in general are supposed to be like $8.
You rip out the old one and then tap the new one in with a punch.
Last time I installed one was done using a small soda bottle because it had the best fit to slide the seal over the crankshaft.

damn. Was wondering if I need to buy a MAPP gas torch; this post shows yes.

Another way on some cars to mess with the rotational mass is by adding more damper on the front of the crank, like a FluidAmpr. Kinda does the same thing; allows the revs to be smooth at lower RPM.
But Fluidampr does not make/offer one for the Tacoma now, and I don't know how it compares to adding a heavier flywheel, which already exists in the aftermarket.

That's what I don't get about the stock TOB. I hear it's greasable.
It's still a bearing, and bearings can need maintenance.
For example, on old Mercedes the front wheel bearing is hidden behind a cap. Every now and again it's suggested to remove the cap, take apart the bearing (multiple pieces that can be disassembled) to clean it up with a towel, and pack it with grease. Whether using a bearing packer or squishing it through by hand using a plastic bag.
And then re-assembled and the nut tightened to the proper tightness.

Stuff maintained like that tends to last 1mil miles, and stuff left forgotten tends to fail earlier.

I wonder if this part number can be cross-referenced in a seal company parts catalog,
or the vehicle model details entered,
to find their version of kinda the same thing but for much cheaper

Not sure who the source manufacturer company is/their name

Weird that google images shows half of them black, and half brown
black seems better because it is usually teflon and a modern post-year 2000's technology meant to last a long time, and limit wear on the crankshaft surface where it spins
because teflon is supposed to deposit a self-lubricating layer of teflon onto the clean crankshaft, to lubricate better than brown rubber

brown rubber is probably what you'd see available if you were in the year 1990 working on a car older than that, because teflon maybe wasn't maybe out on the market yet for rear main seals

 

Thanks, that's the P/N I had researched earlier. It is a bit pricey for something I believe should have lasted for alot longer. But the fact I'm saving about a grand by doing the clutch and TOB myself I can deal with another $50 and knowing the job is done right. I'm a bit disappointed that the seal didn't last longer, but I do go through alot of mud and dirt so if that's the worst of my problems I'm not too worried.


https://parts.camelbacktoyota.com/oem-parts/toyota-rear-main-seal-90311a0006

The MAPP gas was to disconnect the exhaust headers from the y-pipe, may not be necessary for you in particular but for me it was. I have two transfer cases and where I had my Y pipe re-route done was not far back enough to allow the drivetrain to slide back far enough to disengage the transmission input shaft from the clutch. I can tell you that the stock TOB is NOT greasable, it's a run to failure part from the factory. The days of repacking bearings are long gone unfortunately. Every new car I've seen has unit bearings, even my 2002 F350. No grease points and when it fails, you just replace with new. The older style units with a true spindle and servicable roller bearings are long gone. You can thank joe homeowner and soccer mom sally, these are the folks that also were the car manufacturer's reasons for switching to unit bearings and pushbutton 4wd, wireless BS, and the like. Everyone wants things at the tap of a finger without having to put in the slightest bit of work; and the folks who like to keep up with their vehicles by doing preventative maintenance are the ones to pay.

Interesting on the FluidAmpr, never heard or researched such a thing, nice to know other options exist, even if they aren't available for our trucks at the moment.

 

I think some cars have it and some cars don't
I've seen it mostly on luxury cars where the vehicle price point is higher, not sure if that means they can afford to put nicer things in
There was an old Mercedes in Germany where the guy claimed that by maintaining his, he was literally on about 1 million miles on the car, on original bearings.



Audi seems to use a sealed unit kind that you run until failure and replace as a whole

vs the Mercedes kind that is serviceable



my last car was switched from stock DMF to Valeo SMF kit (single mass flywheel)
that coupled with a 4cyl engine that people say is inherently less balanced than a V engine, resulted in noticeable chatter.

installing a $400 Fluidampr helped improve the chatter a lot.



without it, like 1k-2500rpm was shaky, but after install, it felt smooth like I could use the engine torque to chill at that rev range if needed. Like cruising in a parking lot.
Or decelerating/engine braking down to idle before clutching in to a stop

 

@TacoTuesday1
The rear main is a great big thing and being the klutz that I am I have a history of getting them on crooked, and then mangled trying to correct, totally my fault...so I purchased the SST to assist and SURPRISE! I got a bonus as it is the same SST as the one for the large seal in the steering knuckle where the CV shaft passes through.

The OEM throwout bearing does not have a zerk or anything else to add grease. I have a vacuum chamber and been injecting them with a version of the Dupont Krytox PTFE grease now sold by SuperLube. I have mentioned this a time or two but have intentionally never posted a how-to as you have to limit the amount of grease otherwise too much can fling out onto the clutch disc and PP. The idea of doing this came to me after cutting one open and seeing what appeared to be a minimal amount of grease from the factory and recalling the technique used by some old-timers of dunking new TO bearings in 30wt oil over night.

 

I think last time on an Audi I removed the rear cover, measured how deep the stock seal sat inside it with a ruler, and then tried to replicate that or get near it with the new seal pushing it in with a punch on a block of wood. Tapping it in straight and even gently with a small hammer, all around. And possibly starting over if I got it to the wrong depth.

But I hear that with teflon seals you want the depth to be different from stock, so it is starting at a fresh untouched part of the crankshaft, instead of making it ride in the same worn groove as original.
I don't have calipers that can measure the crank, so I don't know if it actually wears in that much or not, from all those years and miles of a seal spinning on it.
Supposedly brown rubber ones cause more of a wear groove in the crankshaft, and that part of the crank might not be separately replaceable.

I heard theoretically a PTFE seal is supposed to be a lifetime part, whatever that means. Some car makers consider their cars to have a 100k miles lifetime, when they probably want and design it to break apart or be expensive, forcing owners to buy the new model because car industry money is probably primarily in sales and not repairs.
Supposedly that is one part of the engineering field, people whose job it is to stress test parts and design them to last a specific amount of time.

Could a RMS oil leak be caused by an engine PCV system not working? Normally it should have a vacuum on the oil supply to suck oil in; clogging could cause pressure building that would force oil to leak from seals

I don't get it. What's a vacuum chamber and how do you use it to grease a TOB?
why not post a DIY regarding too much flinging onto the flywheel?

I hear Krytox is gnarly stuff used in aerospace. There is a famous Porsche guy who uses it on CV axle rebuilds.
Supposedly it penetrates the pores of even metal to leave a lubricating film; I hear the problem is if not careful, it can also do that to your skin and stay there forever, and that it causes bad fumes when heated. Stuff like that.

 

I think alot of manufacturers also switched to a non-servicable bearing to limit the knowledge required by the "maintenance technician". To repack a bearing and get the correct torque often requires a little more in depth labor rates as well as more knowledge for setting wheel bearing pre-load. The unit bearings are like the Ronco of the bearing world - "set it and forget it". Less chance of a technician mistake causing a failure, and easy to blame manufacturer defect and just replace the part in kind, as well as less time on the labor rates to replace a bearing. Not sure about the high end vs. mid-grade type vehicles, never owned a mercedes/BMW type vehicle and never will. I always beleived that in the automotive world the more you pay vs. the more value/reliability you get has a certain bell curve in car vendors.

 

gonna look into how to adjust the stock TOB to give it airgap freeplay and stop the squeaking for now, to last longer
because it might take longer to install the new clutch
thought maybe I'd do it in 1 week

but it could be as late as 3 weeks out minimum, to
-research DIY's
-order associated parts
-clean/prep truck underbody

the bearings may be good but IDK about everything else
for example W211-chassis Mercedes E class, sure your bearings are fine
but the suspension air bags have failed, the air compressor that inflates them has failed
the SBC braking system pump has failed,
and the scan tool to calibrate those expensive new parts is $1k+

I'm not sure what they make in parts sales for a bearing, because yes
if it costs $2 to produce a bearing that sells for $100 to make a profit in parts sales,
a sealed one could
a) reduce potential for technician error
b) allow for more parts sales due to installing new part every 10yr, vs greasing the same old one forever

this shows an '08 with brown rubber RMS
damn it only took him 2 minutes to change it

 

does the quill need to be replaced while installing a hydraulic TOB?


edit: might not, looks like the CM spacer might do it

 

To replace the quill on these trucks, you would have to replace the bell housing. So good luck with that.

 

aren't there aftermarket solutions where you cut a part off and install their sleeve

 

The only one that was like that was URD Hydro bearing which is no longer sold

 

just be glad your quill didn’t snap off Causing a need for a new bell housing. According to the shop I used, it’s not a fun or cheap process to go through in switching out the bell housing.

 

Aisin tried to reduce the number of components in the transmission. A noble goal from an engineering standpoint, but has proven much worse from a serviceability standpoint.

Front case, bellhousing, input shaft bearing retainer, and release bearing hub quill are all a single piece on the AY6. Honestly if they had just kept the quill as a separate component everything would have probably been fine.

If I was trying to repair this concern, I would probably try to find a way to provide a replacement steel quill that isn’t just a sleeve over the existing quill with set screws.

Jeff

 

Worse than that. To get to the bell housing one has to start at the very rear of the transmission and dissemble the entire thing. The bell housing with captured input shaft seal is the very last piece. So guess what you get to do if the input shaft seal develops a leak....

What ticks me off to no end is on the 3rd gen 6 speed Aisin went back to making a steel removable snout piece bolted to the inside of the bell housing and available as a separate part, nd replacement of the front seal also becomes easy.

 

Yeah the RC60 family is a much more conventional design. It will last longer and be easier to repair if required. Without speaking to the rest of the transmission’s design, the clutch/release setup is good.

Jeff

 

Wow, that is amazing to see that! Yeah you're definitely lucky that didn't break off causing even more damage. You're correct though, as long as the spacer fits snug on that bottom section which looks untouched, the rest of the kit (hydraulic housing and piston) just centers around that spacer and isn't using the quill/snout for anything. With the bracket in place the hydraulic housing is not going anywhere. There have been a few who have installed the CM kit that used to have the URD internal hydraulic bearing that forced you to cut off part of the quill, even further down then what it looks like you're working with there and they are up and running.