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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Dec 3, 2019 at 2:40 PM
    #2101
    IPNPULZ

    IPNPULZ Well-Known Member

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    Behind Enemy Lines.....
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    going to be fun!
    that was my next question
     
  2. Dec 3, 2019 at 2:44 PM
    #2102
    replica9000

    replica9000 ./$0|./$0&

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    Wasn't asking specifically about the Hikari leds, but about bulbs in general.
     
  3. Dec 3, 2019 at 2:51 PM
    #2103
    ppat4

    ppat4 Active Member

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    No mods. Just added toolbox and roof-rack to haul my fishing boat 100's of miles into the backwoods every week.
    Fantastic post by the OP.

    I can't comment on my 2016 Tacoma, as I am still running the stock headlights. They are ok, barely...

    I did install a set of HID headlights into my wifes 2013 RAV4. Pretty simple install.

    Unbelievable quality! Yes, drivers coming the other way, have objected. However, she only gets flashed maybe once every 2nd day driving home in the dark. So not too bad.

    Had to put them in. Here, a lot of the roads she takes are country roads with no homes, no road lighting of any kind.

    Before, with her old Halogens, we could see at most 3 car lengths down the road. Now, at least 20 car lengths down the road.

    Those stock halogens on the RAV4 were terrifying. In my 45 years driving, by far the worse headlights of any car or truck we have owned. I tried a number of different halogen bulbs, looked at LED, but the dealer/installer said go HID for her driving case, so I did. He was going to charge $150 for the install. No way, did it myself in 1 hour. The lights have been in for about 1.5 years now, no issues. We take her RAV4 now whenever we go out at night, the Tacoma stays parked.

    We do a lot of driving on country highways, where the limit is 70mph, and there are cliff drop offs hundreds of feet down. A lot of very bad accidents and deaths on those roads. The HID are life savers.

    Some pics under the hood of the RAV4.

    hid1.jpg hid2.jpg
     
  4. Dec 3, 2019 at 3:55 PM
    #2104
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%. My experience mirrors yours exactly. Another good one, in addition to the Philips +100 is the Sylvania XtraVision. Purple package. No blue coating.
     
    bshammer0 and crashnburn80 [OP] like this.
  5. Dec 3, 2019 at 4:42 PM
    #2105
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Go Hawks!
    Hence why I ordered the Philips H11 headlight specific version I posted a few posts back, as it is not sold in the US like the fogs, so I had to order it from Japan.

    Ah, my mistake! 5000k is what you are looking for. The answer you get can vary a bit in context, whether you are getting data on residential lighting vs vehicle lighting.
     
    replica9000 likes this.
  6. Dec 3, 2019 at 4:48 PM
    #2106
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    As crash said, don’t do it. I’ve read elsewhere from folks with first hand experience with these bulbs that they were so impressed with them in the fogs that they decided to try them in the low beams and it was a major fail due to very bad throw.

    I had the exact same idea after seeing how bright they were in my own fogs. But I never tried it, simply because I read about other people doing it and they were unimpressed.

    looking forward to crash’s results with the Japan market Philips H11 led.
     
    Tullie D and crashnburn80 [OP] like this.
  7. Dec 3, 2019 at 5:24 PM
    #2107
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn’t it be cool if the Philips H11 LED ticks all the boxes!?! Whatever company can get this done is gonna make bank. Tick tock...

    Not gonna get my hopes on the Philips ;)

    But much thanks to crash for doing all the leg-work!! You guys know how much time, money, and frustration he’s saving all of us? If you added it all up... it would be a f’n LOT.
     
  8. Dec 3, 2019 at 6:22 PM
    #2108
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Being flashed isn’t a good indicator of offensive light, as the majority will not flash you. And being flashed that often is excessive.

    A more balanced approach would be to swap the 9005 using in the low beam for a 9011 HIR1, by trimming the top outer plastic tab with a dremel. The 9011 HIR1 is the highest output stock wattage bulb in existence.

    How to modify:
    https://store.candlepower.com/mohirbuba.html
     
  9. Dec 3, 2019 at 6:52 PM
    #2109
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    Could a 9005 high beam (which doubles as the 4runner DRL) also be swapped to 9011HIR1?

    Is every 9011 an HIR1 or must it be labeled specifically 9011hir1?
     
  10. Dec 3, 2019 at 6:55 PM
    #2110
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    I’m basically wondering if this is an HIR even though it doesn’t say so.

    5F7B2333-E042-49B4-9F64-B1264C7B164B.jpg
     
  11. Dec 3, 2019 at 7:06 PM
    #2111
    Tullie D

    Tullie D Well-Known Member

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  12. Dec 3, 2019 at 7:08 PM
    #2112
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Yes. 9011s are HIR1s, just a different labeling system for the same bulb. Some 9011s do not have the IR coating anymore and use more conventional means to get the same performance, I haven’t kept up on which bulb brands still use the IR coating.
     
    Tullie D and NMTrailRider like this.
  13. Dec 3, 2019 at 7:34 PM
    #2113
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been googling... it’s an HIR/toshiba/Philips rabbit hole going back several years.
     
    Tullie D likes this.
  14. Dec 3, 2019 at 7:50 PM
    #2114
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Yessss. Then you end up hunting down exotics like these. :)

    F68BF2B4-9A02-47A7-AF96-8EDAC9B599ED.jpg

    8F32E4CC-3C12-43FB-8475-E51CC1904E79.jpg
     
  15. Dec 4, 2019 at 3:33 AM
    #2115
    gurneyeagle

    gurneyeagle Well-Known Member

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    If and when it is convenient, could someone take a picture of the tab you are talking about and how much needs to be trimmed? I've yet to install my H9's , but plan on it next week when I get home.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  16. Dec 4, 2019 at 6:13 AM
    #2116
    Justin_Exploring

    Justin_Exploring Well-Known Member

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    Hi all! Been lurking on this thread for a little while now and decided to throw up a post in search of some suggestions. Tons of good info in here, and looking forward to seeing a review/specs of the new 2020 OEM LED lights.

    I posted up in the official Morimoto XB thread, but the topic of conversation has more or less gone in the direction of black friday sales, etc. So far I've been loving these headlights for the out of the box performance and looks. Considering doing a RX350 retro in my old stock housings as I can never sit still and need something to tinker with, but that'll be later down the road. For now, wanted some insight or possible ideas for LED headlights in the winter time/snowy/icy conditions. I got to drive with the XB headlights in the snow Sunday going down 95 coming from Boston. Weather sucked, and was a mix of snow, sleet, and rain. As we all know, since they’re LEDs they do not generate heat that can melt snow buildup. Got to experience that first hand. First I got the dash light TSS was unavailable, and knew immediately it was from snow buildup on the garnish. Stopped about 25 mins later to get gas, and the entire front end was snow covered lol, headlights and LED fog lights included.

    Was easy enough to just wipe it all off and keep going. But would like to look into some options to try and minimize the snow buildup. Was thinking of trying an off the shelf ceramic coat wax to hopefully repel snow/ice build up a little more since it’s hydrophobic. I certainly don't want to apply a product that will damage the plastic housings or cause any type of abrasion or hazing. I've read of aftermarket heaters for LED lights, but couldn't find any types of products that would apply to this type of application. Figured I post up and ask for any opinions/ideas on this subject from all the lighting gurus in here.
     
  17. Dec 4, 2019 at 9:35 AM
    #2117
    Keetosis

    Keetosis Member

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    This vid may help. I had access to a dremel type tool and worked for me.
     
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  18. Dec 4, 2019 at 10:11 AM
    #2118
    SRBenjamin

    SRBenjamin Well-Known Member

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    Nice video...if you want your projector full of dust. I used a small pair of Dykes. Took all of 10 seconds.
     
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  19. Dec 4, 2019 at 10:45 AM
    #2119
    Keetosis

    Keetosis Member

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    That would be way easier. my side cutters were dull and rusted, time for a new pair :thumbsup:
     
  20. Dec 5, 2019 at 12:02 AM
    #2120
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Morimoto 2.0 Stroke

    198CEAB3-337D-44DB-A966-2836EEB044B0.jpg

    Morimoto's H11 LED bulbs use a fixed locking collar to ensure the LED is positioned correctly in the housing with emitters pointed at 6 and 9 o'clock, which is the correct orientation, unlike lesser 'adjustable' designs. (Light sources should not be adjustable). These LEDs feature active cooling in what appears to be a unique drum based centrifugal fan design, much like your trucks interior cabin fan, also referred to as a squirrel cage. It is a more efficient design that traditional propeller style blade fans, however while the fan blade design is more efficient, it curiously lacks very many cooling vents to operate as the majority are actually covered on the rear of the LED.

    As discussed before, the critical design trait for a replacement LED is focus. Focus is what drives projection performance. The 2 key traits for focus are that the emitters need to be placed in the same X and Y locations as a halogen filament and the cross section between the faces of the emitters needs to be as narrow as possible. Most companies have the emitter placement down, it really has started to come down to getting the cross section narrow enough to achieve reasonable focus.

    Target distance to replicate a halogen filament cross section: 1.42mm
    [​IMG]

    Morimoto 2.0 Stroke cross section: 3.48mm
    E50C87C0-B7EF-4451-96C1-D8AB2D5D8E93.jpg

    The Morimotos are pretty far off target. For some comparisons numbers Diode Dynamics is at 3.03mm, Sylvania at 2.95mm and Hikari at 2.64mm, the Hikari's being the best I have tested yet.

    Output testing performed after roughly 15 minutes of warm up time to stabilize output for the Morimotos.

    18' Wall Shot
    Morimoto 2.0 Stroke 793 lux vs Stock used H11 Osram standard bulb 623 lux
    49BFC904-6A8B-4FC5-8E1F-E8E11530B7A9.jpg

    42' Distance Test
    Morimoto 148 lux vs Stock used bulb 144 lux
    FCC1F80B-58A3-4808-B888-530E28B15194.jpg

    The Morimotos are only the 2nd LED I have tested that have come in higher in peak intensity than stock at the 42' test, though the numbers are so close I'd nearly call it a wash. The Hikari's were substantially higher. But despite the peak output number, the thick blade design does pay a tax here, as the peak pattern intensity is much lower in the beam pattern that it should be. Peak intensity should be up near the cut off, for maximum distance projection while minimizing foreground light. It is a bit difficult to tell in the photo, but the intensity is dipped in the pattern, you can see the LED pattern lacks intensity above the boxed section of the door, unlike the halogen section. Diode Dynamics, Sylvania and Hikari all did better jobs at hot spot placement near the cut off. Even though Diode Dynamics and Sylvania came in slightly less in peak intensity they produce a better, more correct beam pattern than the Morimotos. Lowering of the hot spot will cause reduced distance projection, even though peak intensity may be brighter. This is an example why peak intensity doesn't tell the full story.

    Specs:
    Color Temp: 5700k
    Lumens: 2440 raw per bulb
    Power: 23w
    Warranty: 3yr

    Measured Data:
    Color temp: 5981k
    Power: 19.6w

    Power draw 19.6w
    736CA512-4093-4203-B931-55D53325F7A5.jpg

    Measurements at 18' and 42'
    958901DD-C745-4963-9563-C1BBC65E8172.jpg 0A33C45A-56AE-4ACD-8A7D-16AD37682ADD.jpg

    The Morimotos used in this test were a year old and lent to me for testing by @mynameistory. Shout out to @mynameistory for contributing the LEDs to the thread for the data to share with the group.
     

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