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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Mar 27, 2020 at 5:22 AM
    #2661
    Tullie D

    Tullie D Well-Known Member

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    No.

    :deadhorse:
     
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  2. Mar 27, 2020 at 5:22 AM
    #2662
    xtyfighterx

    xtyfighterx Master Shredder

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    I actually asked a clarifying question stating the Original post maybe you should start by reading them to? Asked best drop in 6000k led. Got the run around then stated the original post said Hakari and one other were better than stock then the OP Came in gave me the answer I needed.
     
  3. Mar 27, 2020 at 5:26 AM
    #2663
    Garab

    Garab Well-Known Member

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    Your questions have been answered perfectly clear over and over and over. The data has been recorded and graphed out so clearly an idiot could understand it and still you come back with the stupid repetitive questions. learn to read or go back to the tundra forum, im done with you.
     
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  4. Mar 27, 2020 at 5:31 AM
    #2664
    xtyfighterx

    xtyfighterx Master Shredder

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    Yes master. Thanks OP for the only good clarifying info.
     
  5. Mar 27, 2020 at 7:39 PM
    #2665
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Lots of people here from other forums, and the more the better as I see it. Plenty of Tundras and 4runners on the H4 headlight upgrade thread as well and all sorts of people in the SAE thread. However I don't have any plans to test the Tundra LED headlights though, I still need to get my hands on the OEM Tacoma LED headlights to provide some numbers. If someone sent me a Tundra LED headlight to test I wouldn't turn it down, but I don't plan on hunting one down. I know a bunch of the lighting info from this forum is reported on Tundras.com including the SAE thread which was reposted in its entirety with permission.
     
  6. Mar 28, 2020 at 10:04 PM
    #2666
    Apollo14

    Apollo14 El Miembro Guapo

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    Sorry...probably a dumb question:

    Are the H11 4300k Phillips worth the extra $150 these people are asking ($149.99 for the standard kit as is vs $274.42 with the Phillips bulbs)? Also, when reading the first page, the OP stated that we don't need a PWM module, yet these guys are saying all 2013+ "American" models do. Do we really need it? Are they implying "American" market vehicles or "American" vehicle manufacturers? Additionally, why offer the PWM in the first box then offer an optional one?

    Just started looking into an HID conversion kit. This crap is confusing AF.

    Thanks in advance.

    Screen Shot 2020-03-28 at 10.00.26 PM.jpg
     
  7. Mar 29, 2020 at 12:59 AM
    #2667
    Garab

    Garab Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the phillips bulbs are much better.
     
  8. Mar 29, 2020 at 5:08 PM
    #2668
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The XD Philips bulbs are about 36% brighter than the XD house bulbs. The XD Philips bulbs are also on spec for color output at about 4400k, whereas the XD house bulbs were lower at 3850k. There is also bulb longevity to which I have no comparison data. Worth the extra cost is up to you. In a halogen projector they will produce excessive amounts of uplight (glare) to oncoming drivers, and the Philips will be 36% more.

    The Tacoma does not use PWM, regardless of what they say you don’t need it.
     
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  9. Mar 29, 2020 at 5:09 PM
    #2669
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Philips LED headlight box, apparently they have legalized these products in Japan.

    9006E1EC-21F4-43DE-8815-2D33ED4AB189.jpg
     
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  10. Mar 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM
    #2670
    KevC

    KevC Well-Known Member

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    For those that ordered off of powerbulbs. How long did it take to receive they ship from UK right?
     
  11. Mar 29, 2020 at 8:52 PM
    #2671
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    Getting closer, I see...
     
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  12. Mar 29, 2020 at 9:16 PM
    #2672
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Running outdoor distance test now. Trying to brave in between the rain showers but got caught being overly optimistic. Right now I have a giant CSF radiator box with a large plastic trash bag over it protecting my running power supplies in a down poor.

    1A5E1845-983A-4451-A4AF-AEE541EF26A3.jpg

    Moments later:

    2CAFA04F-024B-4AFF-8A85-AC5BE7484AD0_1_201_a.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  13. Mar 29, 2020 at 11:00 PM
    #2673
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    Woohoo!! Commitment!
     
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  14. Mar 29, 2020 at 11:45 PM
    #2674
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Philips X-treme Ultinon H11 LED headlights
    Not available for sale in the USA, I imported these from Japan.
    Not to be confused with the H11 Philips low output fog light version commonly available in the USA.

    FBB6677F-0266-4082-A6DF-755529C10C62.jpg

    H11 halogen filament cross section, 1.42mm. This is the target width for proper focus.
    [​IMG]

    Cross section, Philips LED 3.09mm. Over 2x wider than a standard halogen.
    C0DC6B36-2D86-4035-AC4A-CE54D5FFF0AF.jpg

    For comparison to others, Sylvania's LED is 2.95mm and Hikari Ultra is 2.64mm. The Philips cross section is subpar, wider LEDs cause loss of focus and a dip in peak beam pattern intensity in the beam pattern from where it should be located near the top of the pattern. Not impressive.

    Interestingly the Philips LEDs specify right/left on the blade. The bulb tabs should prevent incorrect installation, so the cause seems somewhat dubious. As a credible manufacture Philips doesn't make those garbage 'adjustable' style LEDs promoted by lessor manufactures.
    F707956D-8144-4446-8AE7-572B61F0D928.jpg

    The Philips LEDs are advertised as 22w. After 15min runtime in 59 degrees ambient temp, they pulled 20w. (1.45A at 13.8v).
    DE67BBB9-7F7D-49E5-8500-748B160A1B73.jpg

    After 15 min of runtime in 59 degrees ambient heat, the Philips heat sinks were hitting nearly 180 degrees. Note these are the highest performing passively cooled LEDs I am aware of. Others performing at this level are using active fan cooling. As such you'd expect high temperatures on the passively cooled heat sinks.
    C9697390-5A1E-47FB-BC64-0FBD25CC4D30.jpg

    18' indoor test.
    Philips LED 809 lux left vs GE +130 1085 right. Recall photos make higher color temps look brighter.04B54A00-E227-42DC-9549-D64FBA610F85.jpg

    The Philips LED Hot spot is poor, which is not surprising given the cross section width. While the halogen peak intensity is near the cut off, where it should be for proper distance projection, the LED 'hotspot' is clearly dipped in the pattern.

    42' Distance test
    Philips LED 152 lux left vs GE +130 230 lux right
    9B92B429-954C-4488-8E04-6A3C52412612.jpg

    A basic H11 performance halogen (GE Megalight +130) outperforms the peak output intensity of the Philips LEDs by over 50% in the 3rd Gen Tacoma projector. And the GE Xenon +120s perform even better than the +130s.
    60CDBA0B-1481-4199-983A-19EDDA86D80B.jpg
    But compared to stock, the peak output intensity of the Philips LEDs is slightly higher than stock at 42'. Philips LED at 152 Lux vs Stock at 144 lux.

    But here is the problem with simplistic single peak intensity lux numbers, they do not tell the entire story. While halogen peak intensity lux values are up near the cut off maximizing distance projection, here is where the peak Philips LED lux value was recorded at:
    5BDB9E55-CE05-441C-AA9B-809991F417F7.jpg

    15" down below the cut off for peak intensity output, which is far from ideal. Dipping peak intensity causes increases in foreground light and losses in distance projection. This picture should speak volumes about how LEDs will cause loss in distance projection performance.

    While these Philips LEDs have the 2nd best peak intensity recorded behind the fan driven Hikaris, and are the highest output passively cooled LEDs, I'd still rate the performance as poor and not recommend them.
     
  15. Mar 29, 2020 at 11:52 PM
    #2675
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    @Rockoma5 Here is how the Philips LEDs compare to your Beamtech LEDs at 18'. The Philips are 2x brighter at 18'.

    0C1A5C62-330D-4A35-B9F6-44CD03F9658C.jpg
     
  16. Mar 30, 2020 at 1:14 PM
    #2676
    Loan Wolve

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    Thanks to all the great contributors to this thread (especially @crashnburn80 ). Really appreciate all the testing, compiling, & posting of info (and for letting the data do the talking).

    Probably a dumb question for you all... I'm about to pull the trigger on the Phillips H9s and will just trim the base. Seeing there's a 10w delta from the stock H11s, is there an additional strain on relays/power supply/wiring (pardon my ignorance) that could cause a long-term issue? On some of the reviews for the harness people modify for H9-->H-11 that there had been cases of overheating/melting.

    We tend to take very long road trips (1k to 4k miles) once a year or so, and don't want to do anything could give me grief on a long route if I have lights on for hours on end. I live in the city currently and also don't want anything that's going to blind all the (already poor) drivers in my area. Thanks!
     
  17. Mar 30, 2020 at 1:17 PM
    #2677
    replica9000

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    I was expecting better from Philips. And I wonder if they are actually legal in Japan.
     
  18. Mar 30, 2020 at 1:34 PM
    #2678
    Baja50000

    Baja50000 New Member

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    Thanks so much for your exhaustive testing.

    I have a few question:

    How much/what brand is your spectrometer? I am interested in buying one.

    Second, I see in other threads that you use an Extech LT45 as well. I'm curious, is the LT45 accurate at metering HID light sources? I understand that the SPD of a HID light source is rather "spiky" and quite unlike an incandescent or even a LED light source. Have you ever done a LT45 vs. spectrometer accuracy comparison when metering HID light sources? I'm curious because I just got into the lighting upgrade game myself for my truck, and I see a lot of people taking lux measurements of HID light sources with lux meters. Something seems off to me here: I don't think a lux meter would be able to correctly extrapolate lux from sampling a few points in a HID light source. Maybe I'm mistaken, and the Extech LT45 is "smarter" than I think. Thank you again :).
     
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  19. Mar 30, 2020 at 3:05 PM
    #2679
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Active Member

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    @crashnburn80
    Whats interesting to see about the various LED bulbs is that the cross section width is basically cutting into any attempt to provide a sufficient thermal path from the LEDs to the heatsink. The junction temperatures on the more aggressively driven LEDs is probably very high.

    The height of the LEDs themselves is also going to be a problem. Stack two 0.7mm height chips directly back to back to get your die placement as focused as possible, and you have no thermal or electrical pathways. I appreciate you taking the time (and spending the money) to test these drop in bulbs, but every single test shows that they're ultimately pointless.
     
  20. Mar 30, 2020 at 5:20 PM
    #2680
    bulldog

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    Upgraded to H9's in my 3rd gen and 5th gen 4runner.

    What are you all upgrading hi beams to?
     
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