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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Apr 7, 2020 at 8:23 PM
    #2721
    Bubble Wrap

    Bubble Wrap Well-Known Member

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    Metal Hyena likes this.
  2. Apr 8, 2020 at 6:55 AM
    #2722
    travadol

    travadol Well-Known Member

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    Based on your Morimoto XB review, I can't see a single LED projector making a good highbeam. I was hoping the quad projector would be 2-low/2-high but it appears to be 3-low/1-high. Obviously testing these would provide definitive numbers but I'm skeptical if this will be an improvement over stock.
     
  3. Apr 8, 2020 at 6:58 AM
    #2723
    Garab

    Garab Well-Known Member

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    Theyre better over stock halogens and only marginally better than an H9 halogen, no idea how they compare over stock LEDs on the new 2020. $1200 is asking alot when its barely better than an $8 halogen bulb.
     
  4. Apr 8, 2020 at 7:01 AM
    #2724
    travadol

    travadol Well-Known Member

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    I'm still waiting on delivery on my 2020 OR Premium, but there isn't an LED headlight option in Canada besides on the Pro. And my dealer won't even let me kick tires on LED headlights from the Pro without a Pro VIN.

    And you're absolutely right: $1200+ for a potentially marginally better headlight just for looks is a hard sell when H9's are a cheap, easy upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
    shane100700 likes this.
  5. Apr 8, 2020 at 7:29 AM
    #2725
    mds08

    mds08 Senior member

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    Your in luck, I drove my friends new 2020 OR with the LED feature and they are nice! Are they better than my old factory bulbs, yes! Are they better than my GE 140s, yes. I added diode dynamic sl1 and they to me are better than the GEs. Last night I drive his and then mine and the 2020 LEDS have the edge but not a $1200 edge. I'm happy with my stock TRD Sport lights with the LEDs, daytime LEDs and my rigid industries LED fogs. Hell I rarely even drive after dark.
     
    BadDogMax likes this.
  6. Apr 8, 2020 at 8:00 AM
    #2726
    travadol

    travadol Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see crash test them to see what kind of numbers they put down. Hopefully someone will wreck a 2020 Pro in his area and he can score some lights for cheap.

    Do you know if the OR LEDs are different than the Pro's? Or are they the exact same light?

    I think a lot of it comes down to driving. My Taco will mostly be used to tow my trailer to the mountains. I won't be doing a ton of night driving outside the city and I won't be towing at night since I hate setting up in the dark. But being a numbers guy who likes to quantify things, knowing an H11 LED drop-in headlight doesn't perform as well as a halogen will bother me for no reason. lol
     
  7. Apr 9, 2020 at 4:01 PM
    #2727
    jimmerheck

    jimmerheck Well-Known Member

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    yes it was easy, I had to trim the plastic nub inside with a pair of flush cut side cuts and then finished with an Alfa knife. Did not have to alter the outer tabs. It took a tiny bit of manipulation to fit them back inside the headlight housing, but no big deal. The hardest part was getting my hands in those areas, its a weird angle, but no biggie. I did unbolt the washer tank and moved it out of the way to help get my hand in there.
     
    Tullie D likes this.
  8. Apr 13, 2020 at 2:22 PM
    #2728
    SpyderRC

    SpyderRC Well-Known Member

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    Just ordered the H9's, wanted to order 4 to keep 2 as backups in the glove box but I'm kinda irritated that Amazon decided to jack the prices up on these. They where running ~$7 for the last 6 months then BAM, cv-19 hits and prices went to $10-$11.
     
    Boghog1 and Tullie D like this.
  9. Apr 13, 2020 at 2:32 PM
    #2729
    travadol

    travadol Well-Known Member

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    Huge fan of CamelCamelCamel for watching prices and setting up alerts. It's great for watching items you don't need asap but want in the future.
     
    Toy_Runner likes this.
  10. Apr 13, 2020 at 2:34 PM
    #2730
    SpyderRC

    SpyderRC Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! I'm going to set up an alert on these, so hopefully the two I ordered will last until Amazon decides to drop the price on them again.
     
    travadol likes this.
  11. Apr 13, 2020 at 11:08 PM
    #2731
    r1200gs4ok

    r1200gs4ok Well-Known Member

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    that's bullshit.....there is a leak in the seal for that much"condensation"......the heat of the light will dry it out but left in a cool place the air inside again has moisture and will show up again
     
  12. Apr 15, 2020 at 8:41 PM
    #2732
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    End of life H9 bulb testing

    @skierd sent me his Philips H9s after one blew to evaluate the performance loss over the life of the bulb, as halogens dim over time. Since both bulbs were installed at the same time and run till one failed, the other bulb is effectively at the end of its life span.

    New Philips Left vs EOL Philips Right
    28F6EBA6-344C-4D43-A704-E66D0C495B96.jpg

    Clearly the halogen cycling has taken a toll on the filament.

    EOL Philips H9 left vs new H9 Philips right
    54AF7B63-0150-4D5B-B04D-B55AA68FBA65.jpg

    New Philips H9 vs EOL Philips H9 (both China made)
    47E5067C-7EA6-4F29-AE27-DFE5C3BB854F.jpg

    You can see the EOL bulbs suffer about a 25% output loss, which is reasonably consistent with my other EOL halogen output loss findings. I believe I’ve seen GE claiming their Xenon bulbs only lose 10% over their lifespan, though the lifespan is much shorter.

    What was also interesting, the EOL bulb draws less power, by about 0.5A.

    New H9 left vs EOL H9 right
    DC512091-A00F-4BB8-B7C4-08BA444E9D9E.jpg

    It is also worth noting that peak intensity of an EOL Philips H9 bulb is still slightly higher than peak intensity of the best tested replacement LEDs to date, the Hikari Ultras at stable output in a 3rd Gen projector.

    07638D0B-DAA7-408E-B659-1FEBBE6D513D.jpg

    Remember to always replace bulbs in pairs. If one bulb failed the other is likely not far behind. You want the best performance possible and a 25% loss is noticeable, however with gradual dimming over time you won’t notice the difference in daily driving, but you will likely notice a difference after installing a fresh set of bulbs.
     
  13. Apr 15, 2020 at 9:34 PM
    #2733
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @crashnburn80 for posting the results so quickly!

    There's been a lot of questions regarding bulb life. I'm a outside sales rep for a wine distribution company and visit 10-15 accounts per day, meaning they were cycled on and off at least 12-18 times per day as I turn my truck off at every stop, and drive my truck for roughly 2-6 hours per day 5 days a week 48 weeks a year, plus any personal trips. I only used these bulbs for about a month last winter and all of this winter, roughly October to late March when they blew. I removed these for summer 2019 (april through October) because in Alaska I don't need headlights in summer and ran the stock H11LL's. They were cleaned with alcohol wipes both times they were installed (once in 2018, and once in fall 2019).

    Long story short: My educated guestimate is these bulbs have about 300 hours on them with hundreds of on/off cycles. With my driving habits, I plan to buy a new set every fall. I could tell towards the end of this winter that they were not as bright as they used to be and I'm actually surprised they tested as well as they did.

    Unfortunately i do not have my GE +130's anymore; I installed them in my wife's CRV that she traded in in December. Maybe if someone else pops one they can send it in for EOL testing too.
     
    Toy_Runner and crashnburn80 [OP] like this.
  14. Apr 16, 2020 at 12:38 AM
    #2734
    Redline870

    Redline870 Well-Known Member

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    @crashnburn80 - if I send you these, do you want to test them out? I know you said they’re lower output in a previous post but they’re a much different more unusual design from the ones you already tested. I use them in my fog lights and I’m very happy with them. I’m curious how they’d perform in the low beam even though I already run HID’s and have no plans on trying it.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/151997730019
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
  15. Apr 16, 2020 at 2:58 AM
    #2735
    Garab

    Garab Well-Known Member

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    Theyll run shitty just like every other LED drop in bulb.
     
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  16. Apr 16, 2020 at 6:48 AM
    #2736
    Redline870

    Redline870 Well-Known Member

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    Yes but how shitty is the question lol
     
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  17. Apr 16, 2020 at 10:04 AM
    #2737
    jimmerheck

    jimmerheck Well-Known Member

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    I leave my headlights on Auto all the time. I guess it would be safe to assume that every time I pull in and out of the garage in the daytime, and my headlights cycle on and off every time, since my garage is a little dark and they turn on and off each time, that this on and off cycling will shorten the life of the bulb?
     
  18. Apr 16, 2020 at 11:46 AM
    #2738
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    To put it in perspective, the stock H11 halogen headlight bulb is 1200 lumens at 12.8v. When the vehicle is running powered by the alternator my measurements on a stock Tacoma shows it regularly runs between 13.5-14.1v depending on the battery state. Meaning the stock H11 is going to run at much higher voltage than the 12.8v rating (all vehicles do), resulting in higher output than the 1200 lumen spec based at 12.8v. Actual real world output is around 1550 lumens at 13.8v, for a bulb that was 1200 lumens at 12.8v.

    The legal spec for an H11 allows a range of +/-15% of the 1200 lumen @12.8v rating, aka 1020-1380 lumens. The Philips H11/H16/H8 fog LEDs are 840 lumens. Meaning they fall below the legal output minimum for an H11 headlight bulb, and are approaching almost 1/2 the output of a stock H11 in a real world application. Combined with the focus performance penalty in a projector, these would very dangerous to run as headlight bulbs, which is why Philips has specifically labeled in large letters on the front of the box "Designed for fog use only".

    The OEM fogs don't have good cut offs and putting replacement LEDs in a reflector fog only makes the problem worse causing excessive glare. You'll get far higher performance with higher output, better pattern and less glare by using a replacement SAE LED fog assembly. I'd highly recommend checking out the latest from Diode Dynamics. I've covered most options for Tacomas here. See the links at the top of the thread for the latest product updates:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/
     
  19. Apr 16, 2020 at 4:51 PM
    #2739
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    To some extent that is likely the case, the additional on/off thermal cycling the bulb isn't going to do it any favors. I don't have a way to quantify that though, and realistically if you use the auto setting I wouldn't let it change any of your driving behaviors. The bulbs are not that expensive and easily replaceable.
     
    Tullie D likes this.
  20. Apr 16, 2020 at 7:54 PM
    #2740
    lamjam

    lamjam Well-Known Member

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    crash thanks for all the work youve done. I went and got some DD sports cause of you. I also have wonder how did DD get their pricing so much lower than the baja design stuff?
     
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