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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. May 11, 2020 at 12:00 AM
    #2801
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Responded via PM.
     
  2. May 11, 2020 at 6:26 AM
    #2802
    TheCochese

    TheCochese On your left...way left.

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    Rims =/= Wheels
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. May 11, 2020 at 11:06 AM
    #2803
    Garab

    Garab Well-Known Member

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    Because that's impossible with current LED given their physical limitations. If someone is telling you they are, you're being lied to.

    Furthermore Headlight Revolutions is full of shit. Everything they say trying to sell you lighting is bullshit.
     
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  4. May 11, 2020 at 12:11 PM
    #2804
    mdb1grfe

    mdb1grfe Well-Known Member

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    I read the first post in this thread. Not interested in installing HIDs. Way too much to read for me.
     
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  5. May 11, 2020 at 12:22 PM
    #2805
    Garab

    Garab Well-Known Member

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    clearly you did not.
     
  6. May 15, 2020 at 6:49 AM
    #2806
    savage24x

    savage24x Active Member

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    I eventually ended up taking these out. Once I get enough posts, I'll list them for sale. The squirrel-finders drove me and other drivers crazy. Went back to H9 halogen, think a RX350 retrofit will be my best option. Shame, such great bulbs and a ton of output. Wish our stock projectors were up to par.
     
    crashnburn80 [OP] likes this.
  7. May 19, 2020 at 1:40 PM
    #2807
    ncfire11

    ncfire11 New Member

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    Looking for the TL/DR version(kinda)...

    I have spent weeks browsing these forums, and I haven't even made a dent in it. I purchased a 2019 TRD Sport in cement last week and it came with LED fog lights which emit a nice white light that is close to the DRLs. Personally I don't like the yellowish (3000-3500) light emitted by the factory halogens and would like something closer to the white, 6000-6500 range.

    I considered LEDs however after reading through some of this thread it seems the LED lights aren't going to be the solution, and halogens are going to have a difficult time reaching the color temperature I am after. Are HID's going to be the solution here? Recommendations?


    Thanks for the wealth of knowledge you all have already provided.
     
  8. May 19, 2020 at 2:47 PM
    #2808
    DaBigDogg

    DaBigDogg "Say when..."

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    You can get an HID retrofit or the Morimoto or Toyota OEM LED headlights. Depends how much you want to spend and what you looking for. IMHO from what I've researched, HID Retro (particularly RX350 projectors) > Toyota OEM LED's > Morimoto XB.
     
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  9. May 19, 2020 at 11:02 PM
    #2809
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Halogens will not effectively produce the color temp you seek. The Hikari Ultra LEDs are the best performing LEDs tested yet, and what I would recommend for your desired color temp range. HIDs do produce significantly more glare to oncoming drivers, they have the added complexity of external ballasts and the bulbs tend to 'bounce' in the Tacoma 3rd Gen projector over bumps leading many to be unsatisfied with the performance.
     
    xxTacocaTxx and travadol like this.
  10. May 22, 2020 at 10:56 AM
    #2810
    stressler

    stressler Active Member

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    @crashnburn80 How do you think the h9 performance will be affected for those that will be using vftnuer to bump up the alternator output to the mid 14s for AGM compatability?
     
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  11. May 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
    #2811
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Halogen output increases exponentially to the power of 3.4 with voltage increase. I used 13.8v in my testing as it was the voltage measured at the headlight connector. The Tacoma voltage seems to fluctuate between 13.6-14.1v depending on the battery state and electrical load while driving (13.8v happens to be right in the middle as an average). So using a .5v boost off of 13.8v average would mean: (14.3v/13.8v)^3.4=1.1286 In other words your looking at a 12.8% increase in output on average over the numbers reported in this thread. It is also worth noting the gain is not free, higher voltage does reduce bulb life. I run a +0.5v voltage booster on my truck to support my AGM.
     
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  12. May 22, 2020 at 12:07 PM
    #2812
    stressler

    stressler Active Member

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    Thanks sir. Been a while since I have been on this thread and wasn't sure if it was covered, plus the voltage upgrade for us 3g is pretty new. I figured that shorter life span was given. The H9 was one of the first upgrades I did thanks to you when I picked up the truck almost a year ago. Wasn't sure how much of an increase it would be. 12ish % increase is an added bonus.
     
    crashnburn80 [OP] likes this.
  13. May 30, 2020 at 9:32 AM
    #2813
    Tibetan Nomad

    Tibetan Nomad Well-Known Member

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    So the consensus: GE +130 is the best performing headlight bulb?

    Anyone gotta link to purchase GE +130 bulbs?
    And i take it also fits in 2015 4Runner?
     
  14. May 30, 2020 at 9:58 AM
    #2814
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Philips H9 swap performs best. If you wanted to stay with H11 the GE Xenon +120 are best followed very closely by the GE Megalight +130. The +130s are a little whiter than the +120s. All the data to compare is in post #2.

    Note GE labeling is changing to use the parent company name, Tungsram.

    You can get the Philips and Xenon bulbs from Amazon. The +130s are available from PowerBulbs with free shipping, no tax and a 20% off code on their site. They package products much better than amazon.
    https://www.powerbulbs.com/us/product/tungsram-megalight-ultra-h11-twin

    Yes, 4runner headlights are the same bulb type.
     
  15. May 30, 2020 at 11:27 AM
    #2815
    davidstacoma

    davidstacoma Well-Known Member

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    * Intermittent wiper mod * GE Megalight Ultra +130 low beams installed * Bed Extender (factory, dealer install)
    Good link, thanks. I bought my GE (now Tungsram as you said) Megalights +130 off Amazon previously, I don't see them there now under either brand. The GE Xenon's in H11 I found here are pricey $45.99 a pair:
    https://www.amazon.com/Lighting-H11...1&keywords=GE+Xenon+H11&qid=1590862076&sr=8-2

    With the 20% discount at Powerbulbs, I just bought these for $33.97 shipped, for a backup to the ones I have in my low beam projectors (or maybe to use in the fog lights I am installing in my SR soon if I decide to put in the Philips H9's I bought for my low beams):
    https://www.powerbulbs.com/us/product/tungsram-megalight-ultra-h11-twin

    Based on your previous reviews of both the GE Megalight +130 were pretty close to the GE Xenon 120, and my experience with them is good. Since both brands of high performance bulbs have a fairly short life span, I think the Tungsram Megalight +130's are a far better value at those price points.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020 at 11:34 AM
  16. Jun 2, 2020 at 12:36 AM
    #2816
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Headlight Revolution GTR Ultra 2

    83596C47-0982-402B-9FE6-AAEE42CFB520.jpg


    Headlight Revolution constantly rates GTR products as some of the best performing LED lights. They claim that they "have optimized the position of the LEDs so that once locked into the headlight, they are directly in-line with what the optics of the projector or reflector was designed for". They do lock in place and are not 'adjustable', which is a plus.

    To put that statement to the test about the optics, the critical width for focus is 1.42mm. This is the target objective.
    [​IMG]

    GTR Ultra 2
    B56B739F-F3E7-4B33-914E-92F579506B89.jpg

    Just wow. 3.3x larger than the halogen, this is the worst width of any LED tested in this thread (save the joke of testing BeamTech) while also being the most expensive. Recall that wider off spec widths lead to poor focus and reduced distance projection while shifting the light pattern from distance light to foreground light.

    While width is a challenge for all LED manufactures (though GTR is so far the worst) most are able to get the height and length of the LED emitters similar to the halogen filament. GTR botched it again here. The emitters should be no more than 1.42mm high, but they are still significantly larger, which will further cause poor focus.

    557F4B73-1547-471F-95B5-804CE1F7518D.jpg

    Halogen vs GTR 2 LED emitter vs halogen filament of stock H11
    DAEC2376-DFA5-4B5A-B0DA-78011947C411.jpg

    So all the science says these will perform poorly, but what does the actual data say? These things are really damn bright.

    GTR 2 LED vs Philips H9 at 18'
    075A24E7-1CB9-4118-BF94-5A97A6E94E17.jpg

    GTR 2 LED vs Philips H9 at 18'
    AC229E06-307C-4DAF-B027-0754761ED12F.jpg
    One of the best tools of poor performing LED products is short range distance test readings. It conceals the loss of focus and poor distance performance of poorly designed products that blow out high amounts of foreground light while losing distance projection.

    42' Distance test, GTR 2 vs Philips H9
    DBC8067E-4177-47EB-8D32-C1AA05CF802E.jpg

    GTR 2 vs Philips H9 at 42'
    B544487C-E95A-4C71-934C-DBBF5AC805FC.jpg

    So a Philips H9 swap is 32% brighter at 42'. But numbers alone are exceptionally misleading. While the halogen hot spots are up near the cut off for maximum distance projection as a proper functioning headlight should work, the GTR bulbs peak output are an abysmal 12" below the cut off. Meaning a significant shift to foreground light and loosing distance projection. The blow out in foreground light will look impressive initially, but this is counter to seeing distance, which is the entire point of a headlight. It should also be noted the GE +130 bulbs handily outperform these overpriced LEDs while being a plug and play solution, and not even being the best halogen compared to the Xenon +120s. These are significantly brighter than a stock bulb, but the light is in the wrong place which does more harm than good.

    GTR peak lux location, which should be near the cut off. This is awful.
    D6F6174C-3EBA-47DE-BB46-492E7210C776.jpg

    Headlight Revolution says: "We challenge you to find an alternative that produces the same amount of output with the same small footprint that the Ultra 2 has."

    Umm, ok. If set on LED then Hikari Ultras handily beats the GTR product while offering vastly superior focus, placing the hot spot up where it is supposed to be near the beam cut off while offering higher peak intensity output and drastically better optical design.

    6874D311-E169-46F4-A03E-E557F624C2E5.jpg

    Headlight Revolution claims the GTR 2s are 41.5w, measured stable output:
    749CBF1D-DEEF-4E25-95AF-32BADF913453.jpg

    That is 37w stable output rounding up, so the power consumption falls short of the spec by my measurements. (W=A x V)

    This product is poorly designed by those that do not understand headlight optics, not untypical of generic LED headlight companies. It has the worst optical design of all products in this thread. Prioritizing output over focus is a novice mistake that exploits itself to marketing videos and misleading advertising demonstrating how much brighter the product is, without noting how much worse it performs in real world environments. In a reflector assembly the oversized LED will also cause far worse glare than those that do a better job of mimicking a halogen filament. Unfortunately blowing out your headlight pattern with crazy high amounts of foreground light looks impressive from the driver seat, even though that is the last thing you want from a headlight performance standpoint. Hikari Ultra, Sylvania and Diode Dynamics all did far superior jobs at correct hot spot locations and far better focus for an LED headlight.

    It is also worth noting, all those 'independent test' videos Headlight Revolution does that proclaim GTR as the winner... are proclaiming themselves as the winner. Headlight Revolution and GTR are the same company, the brand labeling is just changed for their products so the consumer wouldn't be aware they are recommending people buy their own products in the 'independent reviews'.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM
    Toy_Runner, travadol, Kane50 and 12 others like this.
  17. Jun 3, 2020 at 9:56 AM
    #2817
    jarbarian

    jarbarian Well-Known Member

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    Gah what a long (good, but long!) thread.

    If I have Mike's harness for LED conversion from halogen to LED, what is everyone's consensus on the best, brightest low/high LEDs?
     
  18. Jun 3, 2020 at 10:42 AM
    #2818
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Are you referring to the Headlight Services harness?

    Best performing replacement LEDs are the Hikari Ultras, covered in post #3 with the other LED reviews. I need to better organize that post to make it more clear those are the recommended product for replacement LEDs.
     
    jarbarian likes this.
  19. Jun 3, 2020 at 10:50 AM
    #2819
    jarbarian

    jarbarian Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I just bought 2 pairs of Hikari Ultra LEDS.

    The harness is for converting (later) to MoriMoto or another Aftermarket LED headlights.
     
    crashnburn80 [OP] likes this.

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