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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Jun 22, 2020 at 1:28 PM
    #2881
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    I too would like to see a comparison between the h11 TRD OR fogs and the ss3 pros. I’m about to order a set of the ss3’s for my Dad’s JK and am thinking I might just order myself a set too.
     
  2. Jun 22, 2020 at 1:32 PM
    #2882
    davidstacoma

    davidstacoma Well-Known Member

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    * Intermittent wiper mod * GE Megalight Ultra +130 low beams installed * Bed Extender (factory, dealer install) * Nitori’s SR OEM fog light mod
    You’re talking to an engineer who loves LEDs, they’re all over the house lol. I’m also a look at the test data guy, not from Missouri but I should be ;) lux data I’ve seen shows the halogens put out more light. How the beam spread compares I would like to see the comparison tests :)
     
  3. Jun 22, 2020 at 1:33 PM
    #2883
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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  4. Jun 22, 2020 at 2:09 PM
    #2884
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    I hear you, and I'm an Engineer with LEDs all over my house too. I'd have to do some searching, but recently, somebody here posted up pics of every single fog light that @crashnburn80 recently tested. The pics were all taken from the exact same spot and show the patterns against the same wall at a distance. To say the DD SAE Sport and Pro lights blew away the competition would be an understatement.
     
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  5. Jun 22, 2020 at 2:15 PM
    #2885
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    A fog pattern beam intensity and a headlight pattern beam intensity are not really comparable. The patterns are very different. Headlights are going to be focused, with a high intensity pattern hotspot for maximum distance projection. This will drive higher lux numbers in a smaller area. Your headlights need to provide the ability to see far ahead at 60-70+ mph on a dark highway, so you can see objects with enough time to safely react. While the headlights illuminate a large area, the hot spot or peak focus point is where the readings are taken in the threads. Fogs by comparison are more of a defused wide spread pattern. There is no real hot spot, the pattern should be relatively even in intensity and cover a very large/wide area, it is only intended for short rage at low vehicle speeds when conditions are poor and you need help finding the edges of the roadway.
     
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  6. Jun 22, 2020 at 2:24 PM
    #2886
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I have the stock H11 TRD wide angle fogs found on 12-15 Tacomas and 16-19 TRD Tacomas measured at 203 lux @18'. Non-TRD trucks will use significantly lower performing H16 fogs.

    Also, if obsessed with home lighting LEDs:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...lighting-using-leds-hirs-and-halogens.574930/
     
  7. Jun 22, 2020 at 2:52 PM
    #2887
    davidstacoma

    davidstacoma Well-Known Member

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    * Intermittent wiper mod * GE Megalight Ultra +130 low beams installed * Bed Extender (factory, dealer install) * Nitori’s SR OEM fog light mod
    Yes I figured that would be a difference in comparing low beam headlights to fog lights, just didn't think it would be that much loss in the fogs, so thanks for the comparison data. What H11's were you running when you did that test? I'm wondering how my GE/Tungsram Megalight Ultra 130+ will do in the fogs. I'm betting better than 203 lux ;) Also I've heard good things about H11 Nokya hyper yellows andH11 Hella Xtreme Yellows I might give a try. Not a poor man, but a value driven one and I found the posts in this thread very helpful in that regards:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/3rd-gen-stock-fogs-vs-diode-dynamics-ss3.646709/

    I have a non TRD Tacoma, had no fog lights, installed the H11 OEM fogs. Wouldn't give the H16's a second thought lol.

    I took a look at your home lighting post, excellent work. So many people have no idea when buying LEDs for the home, I started replacing mine about 5 years ago, and now all the incandescent and fluorescents are gone. We use warm 2700K for general living areas, close to the incandescent bulbs we replaced, even the ceiling fans have decorative warm LEDs. I have 4000K replacements for fluorescent in the garage, closets, and kitchen fixtures. Don't care for the harsh white 5000k and 6000k bulbs at all.

    Edit: A question @crashnburn80, have you tested the Diode Dynamics kit made specifically for the Tacoma?
    https://www.diodedynamics.com/ss3-led-fog-light-kit-for-2016-2020-toyota-tacoma.html
    They are naturally further recessed than the mount version I saw that you tested. I would expect that to impact beam spread with the recessed mounting, and if you tested these I've missed that post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  8. Jun 22, 2020 at 3:30 PM
    #2888
    davidstacoma

    davidstacoma Well-Known Member

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    * Intermittent wiper mod * GE Megalight Ultra +130 low beams installed * Bed Extender (factory, dealer install) * Nitori’s SR OEM fog light mod
  9. Jun 22, 2020 at 5:17 PM
    #2889
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    My truck is an SR so I started with no fogs. I'm currently using TRD OR fogs with stock h11 bulbs. It's what I had on hand, bulb wise, when I realized how much glare I was getting from the Xencn H9 bulb I bought with the Subaru fogs from @crashnburn80. I haven't driven at night since early April and won't until September (Happy Solstice! nearly 22 hours of daylight today!).

    I honestly think the TRD fogs do a fine job especially when it comes to illuminating the sides of the road. I'm either going to try the 75w Nokya H11's, amber Nokya h11's, or another set of the GE/Tungsram +130's next.
     
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  10. Jun 22, 2020 at 5:46 PM
    #2890
    davidstacoma

    davidstacoma Well-Known Member

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    * Intermittent wiper mod * GE Megalight Ultra +130 low beams installed * Bed Extender (factory, dealer install) * Nitori’s SR OEM fog light mod
    Sounds good. I have the 55W Osram stock bulbs in the fogs I bought off the forum, and just got in a new set of Tungram 130+, I'm gonna swap one out and compare the two. Then I'll probably buy the Hella and Noyka yellows and see how they do. This thread below show a comparison to the Diode Dynamics SS3s, don't care much for the greenish tint the LEDs have compared to the Hella's, and of course the cost. And his advice "Honestly I'm not sure if they're worth $200 plus ~30$ shipping. I liked the stock fog lamps with the Yellow Hella H11 Bulbs at $20, that was a solid upgrade for the money" pretty much tells the story I wanted to know.
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/3rd-gen-stock-fogs-vs-diode-dynamics-ss3.646709/
    Man, I forgot you're in AK, you must be way up North! I was in Canada many years ago not too far from the Arctic circle, in June we had about 4 hours of darkness there. 22 hours of daylight is crazy haha :D

    Update: Made the "big plunge" and ordered...Hella H11 Xtreme yellow bulbs, I've studied enough:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079VYZ2TP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Now on to softopper vs. Gator Tailback toneau decision. :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  11. Jun 22, 2020 at 10:45 PM
    #2891
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Lots of fog talk in a headlight thread.

    TRD fogs have the widest throw of any fog for the Tacoma, at an impressive 95 degrees. The next best fog at 90 degrees with the SS3 Pro but that faces straight forward, the TRD units angle more light to the sides than straight ahead, providing wider illumination than the initial specs would imply. If looking for the widest throw to the sides of the vehicle, the TRD wide angle halogen units are it.

    To answer your earlier question, the lux readings were on a stock H11 Osram standard bulb in the fogs.

    Yes, the units are recessed on the inside of the mount, aka toward the center of the vehicle. Since the loss occurs on the inside edge (vs outside), it does not affect the width of the pattern when mounted on the vehicle, all that is affected is the area of overlap directly in front of the vehicle. The degree loss is minimal and the center overlap is still significant giving best in class intensity values.

    As an example, this is a 65 degree wide Rigid 360, mounted on the left side of the vehicle only (no passenger fog) with the same recessed style mount to cause obstruction loss on the inside edge. There is still plenty of coverage going right across the center of the truck. The SS3s will extend noticeably wider to the outer edge of the vehicle, since the pattern is 81-90 degrees depending on Sport/Pro vs 65 degrees with the 360. So you can see the obstruction loss across the center is mostly irrelevant.
    [​IMG]

    Note that SS3s are richer yellow and less green than the competition, since they use warm color temp 4000k LEDs with much less correction in a yellow lens than those that start at higher color temps and try to bring them down with just lens correction alone. Yellow bulbs on the TRD fogs are certainly an option, but keep in mind all coated bulbs suffer output filtration loss and the SS3 sports are already higher in intensity output than an unfiltered bulb.

    I'd suggest we move further discussion for fogs to one of the fog threads and tag members there.
    LED: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/
    Halogen: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-ultimate-foglight-upgrade-h11-not-led-or-hid.435419/
     
  12. Jun 23, 2020 at 2:56 PM
    #2892
    davidstacoma

    davidstacoma Well-Known Member

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    The fog light threads would be more appropriate, but no need for further discussion on this subject, as you can see in my post above I've already decided to go with the "value option" and trying the Hella yellows for reasons also in that post. My backup plan if I don't like those is the white OEM OSRAM halogens in them now which I find acceptable, or swap out to my Tungsram 130+ bulbs. Nothing against the SS3's, I do like the forward throw of those. I look forward to keeping up with the improvements made in LED lighting, that may be an option I consider in the future. Thanks for the input.
     
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  13. Jun 26, 2020 at 1:44 PM
    #2893
    alxjones

    alxjones Member

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    Just had to hop on this thread and thank everyone from the bottom of my heart, lol. I went through a couple different bulbs before finding this thread, researching, and managing to find a couple solid switchback LED options months ago and haven't looked back since. I don't remember how much time I spent going page by page when I was lurking. :rofl:
     
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  14. Jun 27, 2020 at 7:27 AM
    #2894
    replica9000

    replica9000 ♪ All my exes live in T̶e̶x̶a̶s̶ Florida ♪

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    One of my high beams blew last night. I've been following this thread so much, I almost forgot my 4Runner high beams are HB3s and not H9s.

    AutoZone and Advanced Auto only seem to sell overpriced Sylvania these days. I have a Napa near me. They have NapaVision bulbs. Are they rebranded Sylvania? @crashnburn80
     
  15. Jun 27, 2020 at 7:43 AM
    #2895
    Toy_Runner

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    This guys testing:

    https://www.hidplanet.com/forums/fo...n/halogens/1465312-tested-best-9011-hir1-bulb

    Seems to show the new Korean made Sylvania 9011 beats the toshiba made 9011 as a bulb upgrade choise. 9005/HB3 ->9011 is a good choice generally speaking for highbeams.
     
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  16. Jun 27, 2020 at 7:50 AM
    #2896
    Juggernaut

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    I bought 9011 bulbs for my wife's rav4 based on the ideas in this thread. Very happy with that upgrade as well.
     
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  17. Jun 27, 2020 at 12:03 PM
    #2897
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    As mentioned the HB3/9005 -> 9011 HIR swap is the way to go. You will need to trim the outer plastic tabs on the bulb. Output goes from ~1700 lumens to ~2350 lumens and doesn't use any more power. trimming instructions and a diagram can be found here: https://store.candlepower.com/mohirbuba.html

    The Toshiba bulbs have been the high performance standard for the 9011. While you cannot get them by the Toshiba brand any more as they stopped making them, you can still get them under GM's re-labeled ACDelco brand.

    To answer your other question, I’m not sure who makes NAPA’s bulbs. They are made in Korea, like the Hella H9s which perform well. But recall Hella doesn’t make Bulbs, they are outsourced. There seems to be some decent bulb manufacturing in Korea.

    That is interesting. I was unaware Osram started making a new 9011 in Korea and it looks like those are actually HIRs unlike their previous 9011s. For others, some of Sylvania's specialty bulbs, like HIRs, are Osram products in a Sylvania package. Osram is the parent company. The German 9011s from Philips/Osram have gone away from using the IR coating and instead meet the output spec using conventional halogen technology, but in doing so are lower performing and shorter life, but are also lower cost. It would appear in the first picture that Osram has gone back to using the IR coating in the Korean 9011, which significantly boosts output. You can tell by the pinkish iridescent hue seen on the new Korean 9011 vs the Philips 9011 which lack it. The Toshiba and GE bulbs have this IR coating as well.

    What I don't like about the test, it sounds like the power supply is not up to the task. 12v is a very low test voltage. In theory everything should scale up the same though so the end results should still be the same, assuming the power supply didn't max out and penalize the highest power bulb.

    @replica9000 if you wanted to try the new Sylvania/Osram bulbs instead of the Toshibas I linked above, you need to inspect the back of the bulb itself when purchasing at your local autoparts store. Sylvania 9011s are Osram bulbs, and prior to the Korean made bulb they were made in Germany without the IR coating, which is lower performing than the Toshiba bulbs.
     
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  18. Jul 3, 2020 at 1:34 PM
    #2898
    replica9000

    replica9000 ♪ All my exes live in T̶e̶x̶a̶s̶ Florida ♪

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    @crashnburn80

    Have I shown you these yet? Nokya 75w H11s. I wonder how they would compare to the output of H9s. Usually I see high wattage bulbs pushed to 85w+ which shortens their life.nok7918_01.jpg

    I'm going to order their 9011 bulbs to replace the 2005s that burnt out. I also see Nokya has all weather H11s, but not H9.

    Edit:. On a side note, searching for "high wattage halogens", I still get bombarded with results for LEDs :(
     
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  19. Jul 3, 2020 at 9:59 PM
    #2899
    Taco Guy11

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    I need the version of this post for dummies lol basically just tell me my best options for better lighting and my best options for balling on a budget lol thanks
     
  20. Jul 3, 2020 at 10:31 PM
    #2900
    Claudiomartinof

    Claudiomartinof Well-Known Member

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    Answer: trim the base of a cheap h9 bulb and stick it on the low beam.
     
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