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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Oct 7, 2020 at 10:56 AM
    #3381
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The stock Philips H9 high beam bulb is a very high performing bulb, there isn't any better halogen H9 to upgrade to. I've done some limited testing with LEDs in the high beams, but unfortunately to run a distance test at night to get adequate data results in blasting my neighbors windows with light like a scene out of Christmas Vacation. Based on imperfect data, it seems the Hikari Ultras might offer a small improvement, less than 20% peak intensity. While high beams provide more scattered light, they do still have a hot spot focused above the cut offs to not only create the flood effect above the cut off but also focus light down road for maximum distance projection. Replacement LEDs by their nature are less focused, as they are larger, so they tend to provide more scattered light in the light beam and less focused distance projection light. Some high beam testing was covered in the Hikari Ultra review linked in post #3.

    The most effective way to improve high beam performance is to add aux high beam lights. Check out post #2177 in this thread, and my quoted posts in that post. The KC Pro6 appears to be the highest intensity SAE J581 aux driving light. Rather than a <20% improvement, you get a 270% improvement. Higher peak intensity can be had with a 30" Diode Dynamics driving light bar, though is not technically legal unlike the KCs.
     
  2. Oct 7, 2020 at 11:36 AM
    #3382
    plurby

    plurby Member

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    Thanks for the most informative post I've ever seen! My concern is that the Philip's H9s are no-longer listed in their catalog, so it appears they're phasing them out. What do we do if we can't find them anymore, or what would be the best alternative?

    I also cannot find the Night Breaker H11s for fogs, not sure if that was a misnomer? The link that was associated with it also does not list H11s. Should a user just upgrade to the KC G4's in amber for better fogs (I'm just digging into the fog thread as I type this)
     
  3. Oct 7, 2020 at 12:51 PM
    #3383
    daveeasa

    daveeasa Slowest crimp in the West

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    Link to Phillips H9 I purchased.
     
  4. Oct 7, 2020 at 1:06 PM
    #3384
    plurby

    plurby Member

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    That's the one I also just purchased, but the problem is that Philips doesn't list any H9s in their catalog any more. That's what I'm concerned about, ability to procure these in the future. I guess if I like them I could stock up, but that's not a solution, just a bandage.
     
  5. Oct 7, 2020 at 1:51 PM
    #3385
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    It appears Philips doesn't list any Standard bulbs online anymore, just their performance and cosmetic ones. The H9 is a Standard bulb as there are no performance H9s. It seems unlikely they'd discontinue all standard bulbs, as that is what OEMs use in vehicles from the factory as they last longer than performance bulbs. Replacement LEDs are not legal and there are millions of vehicles on the road that depend on these products. Even if they did though, other brands still produce quality H9s, the Hella H9s were also good performers.

    For fogs, check out the Diode Dynamics SS3s linked at the top of the fog thread. They are the best performing fog so far and available in a more ideal selective yellow. Here are the nightbreakers, though Philips new Pro +150 bulb look more promising with less performance robbing coating. They are a little pricey, the coupon code listed at the tops helps, as does no tax.
     
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  6. Oct 7, 2020 at 1:56 PM
    #3386
    plurby

    plurby Member

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    I'm sure you've gotten tons of praise for what you've done, but I'm going to add my praise as well. You've done an absolutely phenomenal thing here, and I'm extremely grateful for it! Thanks, and thanks for all the info you've given me!
     
  7. Oct 7, 2020 at 7:34 PM
    #3387
    Silver'16TRDSportDCLB

    Silver'16TRDSportDCLB Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thank you for the in depth response! It is much appreciated! I was kinda figuring there really isn't a better bulb out there. I know I want the diode dynamics SS3 pro's for my fog lights, but can't decide on the yellow vs white option. I would like to get the white to add light to the low beams, but then I want the yellow to cut through inclement weather... I really wish PA would allow more then 2 uncovered auxiliary lights on a vehicle... I'd get 6! 2 to run with low beams, 2 to run with high beams, and 2 to run with the fog lights. Alas, I digress. I'll probably get the white fogs to run with low beams, and then pickup a set of the KC Pro6's to run with the highbeams... I think that would get me the most legal lighting. There are just so many freaking deer around here, I'm trying to spot them as far out as I can...
    Thanks again!
    Nate.
     
  8. Oct 7, 2020 at 9:06 PM
    #3388
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Well-Known Member

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    Get the selective yellows for fog lamps. And use them in inclement weather. Theres no need to use fogs in clear weather, they put excessive light in the foreground, which negatively effects your distance vision.

    And just make sure the auxiliary highs (whatever you go with) are wired on a relay so they cant be turned on with lowbeams/turn off when the highbeams are switched off. PA state police seemed to have a hard on for me for a while last year, that was one thing they always wanted to check (easy, fat ticket) and were disappointed by.
     
  9. Oct 7, 2020 at 9:31 PM
    #3389
    ownubad

    ownubad Well-Known Member

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    My hids had that too. Always wondered about that. Thank God for this forum. Learning everyday
     
  10. Oct 8, 2020 at 2:52 PM
    #3390
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Philips XtremeVision Pro +150

    45F68858-249E-4103-A9C1-9209400C8142.jpg

    Comparing the GE/Tungsram +130 (left) to the Philips +150 (right)
    7B2D6DE6-1A6C-4729-98C7-DF9BA6AB8343.jpg

    The GEs have a darker coating that extends further back on the bulb and a deeper glare cap. It is difficult to see in the photo, but the filament appears smaller (better) on the GE bulbs. Smaller filaments give better focus for higher intensity output, and only very subtle (to the eye) improvements are needed to have noticeable performance improvements. However darker coatings covering more area reduce performance, it is most important to not cover the area around the filament.

    Philips +130 left, GE/Tunsram +130 right in 3rd Gen Tacoma projectors
    E6239B2D-1B79-43CB-902E-F897D4C0919F.jpg

    The Philips +150s appear to have a slight larger hot spot and possibly slightly more light output outside the hotspot. I had draw for both at 4.29A, aka 59w.

    Peak intensity and color temp
    AAA13949-1985-4C77-822A-1BE007EC5380.jpg

    The GE/Tungsram +130s are a little whiter and higher in peak intensity by about 12%. It is worth noting the Philips H11 +150 Pro is rated at 400 hours vs the GE/Tungsram at 250 hours, so while they are more expensive they also last significantly longer and that may be worth the small performance tax to some.

    Compared to the stock Osram Standard H11 bulbs, the Philips Pros are a good improvement at 623 lux stock vs 966 lux Pro, aka a 55% improvement in peak intensity over stock.

    Best performance H11
    It is worth noting that the GE Nighthawk Xenon +120 is the best performing direct replacement H11 bulb tested, based on peak intensity. The GE/Tungsram Megalight +130 is #2. This is because the Xenon bulb does not have the light reducing blue coating on the back of the bulb like the +130. However, since Tungsram's purchase of GE Lighting, the GE H11 Xenons have sold out, and I have yet to see a rebranded Tungsram version available yet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  11. Oct 8, 2020 at 2:59 PM
    #3391
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Well-Known Member

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    I'm pleased to see the much smaller and lighter blue banding on the Philips, so it's dissapointing to see that it is still outperformed by the GE/tungsram +130. The significantly longer lifespan should be a plus for purchasers though. Thanks for the review Crash!
     
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  12. Oct 8, 2020 at 3:00 PM
    #3392
    daveeasa

    daveeasa Slowest crimp in the West

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    For you fans of the +130 (like me) cheering at home, enjoy this moment!!! :) :) :)
     
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  13. Oct 8, 2020 at 3:01 PM
    #3393
    Silver'16TRDSportDCLB

    Silver'16TRDSportDCLB Well-Known Member

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    I am waiting for my Pro150s to arrive in the mail! Should be a nice improvement! Thanks again Crash!
     
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  14. Oct 8, 2020 at 5:05 PM
    #3394
    dilbert

    dilbert Well-Known Member

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    d2486421f18944814450ef5b3b9ba94a.jpg
     
  15. Oct 8, 2020 at 5:24 PM
    #3395
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    How does the new Philips 150 compare to the Philips 100?
     
  16. Oct 8, 2020 at 5:32 PM
    #3396
    woodlandtaco

    woodlandtaco Well-Known Member

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    So... simple Philips H9's are still the way to go.
     
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  17. Oct 8, 2020 at 6:28 PM
    #3397
    socalexpeditions

    socalexpeditions IG: @socalexpeditions

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    Just got my H9 bulbs in! I love low-cost upgrades.

    Hopefully they will hold me over until I do a full retrofit.

    Thanks again OP for your testing.
     
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  18. Oct 8, 2020 at 6:45 PM
    #3398
    Tullie D

    Tullie D Well-Known Member

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  19. Oct 8, 2020 at 8:03 PM
    #3399
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I have not tested the Philips +100, so I don’t have an objective measured data backed answer to provide.
     
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  20. Oct 8, 2020 at 9:33 PM
    #3400
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Tungsram Nighthawk H11 "Fog+" LEDs

    94D87C51-D1FA-4871-B0A6-54518AFA7C1D.jpg

    This is the first LED I have seen from Tungsram. Tungsram purchased GE Lighting last year, which produced the outstanding performing GE Nighthawk Xenon +120 and the GE/Tungsram Megalight +130 H11s. Effectively having the two highest performing H11s on the market for a projector assembly, my hopes for their entry into the LED market were high.

    It is worth noting that replacement LEDs in headlights are not legal, however fogs are not federally regulated. Meaning to make a somewhat legitimate product, some manufactures label their LEDs as fogs, as they are therefore not federally regulated. Unfortunately this is a bit of a grey slippery slope as LEDs intended for actual fog use are often much lower output than headlight LEDs masquerading as a "fog" product to sidestep regulations banning their use. So some "fog" LEDs are actual lower output fog while others are headlight LEDs are labeled as "fog" to avoid regulation scrutiny, and if you don't know what to look for you can easily purchase the wrong product for the application.

    Tungsram has two fog models, "Fog" which is lower output and passively cooled, and "Fog+" which is higher output and fan cooled (wink, wink, headlights).

    Examining the Fog+ model for headlight use, recall the target filament width (LED cross section) is 1.42mm:
    [​IMG]

    For as amazing as the GE/Tungsram bulbs are, their LEDs were a disappointing 3.01mm. Hikari and Sylvania both best this measurement.
    8DB17770-F5D8-4DA0-A6B2-EAE24BCDBD32.jpg

    Tungsram Nighthawk Fog+ LED vs GE Megalight +130 halogen
    0F4E1B5F-EC57-4D6A-9335-72A1BEC678B6.jpg

    As typical with LEDs in projectors the hot spot focus is poor, the light appears less focused.

    As tested at 18'
    479F91BC-2FCB-4EC9-ABC5-BF4687515DC7.jpg

    My measurements after 15+ minutes of runtime show draw of 23.6w, pretty close to the 24w spec.
    25213E15-36B0-4E93-B545-93F9A21DF227.jpg

    After 15+ minutes active fan based cooling keeps things only mildly warm on the LED, the driver of course gets quite hot.
    78E72F02-D5EC-4F42-9386-7A2272421B85.jpg

    42' Distance test. Tungsram LED vs GE Megalight +130
    AC79D114-3FDC-4CAB-8E17-46712265E7D3.jpg

    What is important to pay attention to here is where the brightest part of the beam pattern is. Note how the GE Megalight +130 very clearly has the brightest part of the beam right up near the cut off, for maximum distance projection. The Tungsram LEDs lack of focus dips the beam pattern intensity significantly.

    Here is the LED peak intensity location in the beam pattern, which should be up at the cut off.
    21C6914B-4EED-450D-A5A8-D390FABEDA07.jpg

    Measurements from 42':
    AB99C3FB-2512-4C53-850D-3862DED09839.jpg

    The GE/Tungsram Megalight +130s halogens produce 58% higher beam intensity than the Tungsram Nighthawk LEDs. Needless to say this LED product is disappointing from such a high performance bulb manufacture. The Tungsram LEDs are comparable in peak output intensity to a stock standard bulb, but the LED hot spot is significantly dipped in the beam pattern making their output performance actually worse than the numbers would suggest. Needless to say this is not a recommended product. It is worth noting that credible sources suggest Tungram may have rushed to market with their LEDs and relabeled competitively priced Chinese LEDs rather than developing their own design, explaining such a wide disconnect in brand performance.

    Best performance H11
    It is worth noting that the GE Nighthawk Xenon +120 is the best performing direct replacement H11 bulb tested, based on peak intensity. The GE/Tungsram Megalight +130 is #2. This is because the Xenon bulb does not have the light reducing blue coating on the back of the bulb like the +130. However, since Tungsram's purchase of GE Lighting, the GE H11 Xenons have sold out, and I have yet to see a rebranded Tungsram version available yet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2020

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