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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Dec 15, 2020 at 6:51 PM
    #3961
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Aftermarket projectors, especially cheap knock offs, are almost always terrible in performance. Yes it will have a crisp cut off, because it is a projector and that is what many look at and claim it must be good, but they lack precision optics.

    Yes, many "LED companies" (very loose terms) sell cheap China product from AliExpress or Alibaba at big markups to unsuspecting buyers and unfortunately they make a lot of money in doing so. Just take a look at AlphaRex. The design of that LED unit he is promoting looks terrible. It is too bulky, which will lead to poor focus and the emitters are too large which will also lead to poor focus compounding the problem, both increase foreground light and reduce distance light as well as peak output intensity. And when used in a projector, size and focus matters most, meaning bulky out of focus designs perform the worst. The claim that a bulky out of focus $20 AliExpress replacement LED outproduces a German 3,200 lumen OEM grade HID capsule in peak intensity is ridiculous. There are so many wrongs/unknowns in the video it is hard to say what part of the test is causing the bad results if not all combined. The projector is bad, and odd to promote such a product with personal discount codes. Maybe he is trying to up sell those as an alternative to people running HID projectors, showing how LED could be better. Hmm. Unsure. The way those personalized discount codes work is you typically get kickbacks from the sales that use the code. The measurement tool is wrong, and won't provide accurate results, so all the measured data is inaccurate with the exception of the halogens. The test range looks too short, which conceals focus performance issues leading to artificial high values for LED. The list goes on.
     
    NJCementaco, Too Stroked and travadol like this.
  2. Dec 15, 2020 at 9:23 PM
    #3962
    smikec

    smikec Well-Known Member

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    viruszzz84 = guy on the youtube video?

    nah, probably not.

    ignore me
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
    crashnburn80 [OP] likes this.
  3. Dec 15, 2020 at 9:58 PM
    #3963
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Yeah, I don't see any evidence of that. Looking at that youtube channel, it is heavily dominated by AliExpress products, not exactly something you'd turn to as a reputable source.

    I've attracted plenty of interesting followers, like Vanagon triple bulb forced air cooled headlight guy.
     
  4. Dec 16, 2020 at 4:08 AM
    #3964
    GarlicFarts

    GarlicFarts Bang Ding Ow

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    well. I will say this. People want cheap and if the reviews are biased towards that cheapness; I think think that’s a good service. But that doesn’t take into account reviewer bias.
     
  5. Dec 16, 2020 at 11:17 AM
    #3965
    viruszzz94

    viruszzz94 Member

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    Funny guy, but no. I'm from another country, even from another continent. Search where Romania is and that we don't speak russian and then maybe you can make assumptions.

    If you would have watched some of his videos, you would have seen that until now he was against any kind of aftermarket led replacement. I haven't said his test are perfect, I just wanted your opinion and made some corrections to some of your observations. Also, I said about aliexpress because I have seen many leds on youtube that are sold by american companies and are actually chinese products. It's your choice if you want to pay extra for a name or you can buy the exact same product from china for half the price or even less, but the performance will be the same.
    I had the F3 led (which many american say it's great on youtube or Amazon reviews) and I was dissapointed by the performance, mostly by the fact the hot spot wasn't near the cut off line.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
  6. Dec 16, 2020 at 11:27 AM
    #3966
    El Duderino

    El Duderino Obviously, you're not a golfer.

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    But Russian is a recognized minority language in Romania so you never know
     
  7. Dec 16, 2020 at 11:29 AM
    #3967
    viruszzz94

    viruszzz94 Member

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    @OP Good luck with further testing. It's obvious that this is not a place where discussion is allowed in order to discover new things.
     
  8. Dec 16, 2020 at 11:36 AM
    #3968
    El Duderino

    El Duderino Obviously, you're not a golfer.

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    Stuff, things, this, an ADS
    @viruszzz94 this is a great place to exchange ideas but when science has disproven a hypothesis on more then one occasion its kind of hard to except it.
     
  9. Dec 16, 2020 at 11:42 AM
    #3969
    viruszzz94

    viruszzz94 Member

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    @El Duderino correct, but also tehnology is evolving at such a speed that we would be fools to not think about the fact that in the near future there can be an led that will be great in halogen headlights. Morimoto with it's 2mm thickness will be a great start for others to improve.
     
  10. Dec 16, 2020 at 12:09 PM
    #3970
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    You are correct. And the performance will be - wait for it - total crap.
     
  11. Dec 16, 2020 at 12:30 PM
    #3971
    viruszzz94

    viruszzz94 Member

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    @Too Stroked yes, but it will be crap even if the led is 20 dollars on aliexpress or 80 dollars on Amazon because they are the same products. If you order enough, they will even write what you want on the box and on the led itself.
     
  12. Dec 16, 2020 at 12:35 PM
    #3972
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    I think you're missing my point. Cheap Chinese crap - no matter who's name ends up on the final package - will always be junk. Your suggestion that we need to pay attention to it because technology is marching forward so quickly is folly. The Chinese are great at copying (or should I say ripping off) designs from others. They are terrible at coming up with true technological breakthroughs. Said another way, when I'm looking for breakthrough technology, I don't look to Chinese products.
     
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  13. Dec 16, 2020 at 12:55 PM
    #3973
    GarlicFarts

    GarlicFarts Bang Ding Ow

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    I don't disagree, but they're starting to become a real contender in the engineering of stuff.

    Not just that, as I mentioned too, people love that cheap junk because it's so cheap!

    A review that focuses on evaluating that cheap junk and showing what's good and bad about is a valuable resource. Even if the science shows a halogen H9 is better, you're going to have people say "Yeah, but, like, these have 'TRD' on them, so they're cooler, what do you think of these vs. the other ones that say 'Taco'?" etc, etc. So, I think knowing what's on the market, what people are buying and wanting, etc is a valuable resource.
     
  14. Dec 16, 2020 at 1:20 PM
    #3974
    El Duderino

    El Duderino Obviously, you're not a golfer.

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    Stuff, things, this, an ADS
    Very well put. All to often people look at price but not quality
     
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  15. Dec 16, 2020 at 2:24 PM
    #3975
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    A review of "cheap Chinese junk lighting products" might be valuable to certain folks, but probably not people who are truly interested in performance. This thread - and every other thread started by @crashnburn80 - is aimed at folks who are interested in performance. The ones that it might interest would be those who only buy based on price. But if they're only interested in price, why bother reviewing performance?
     
  16. Dec 16, 2020 at 3:35 PM
    #3976
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Did you see my previous comments regarding the design? It is a very old dated design style typical of many years ago that doesn't accurately replicate a halogen, which is typical of most the junk on Alibaba and AliExpress. Yes, many companies buy stuff there and mark it up, but that doesn't make it any good. That particular LED appears higher power than many, but what is needed in a replacement LED light is focus, and that LED lacks it. A high power LED with lack of focus dips the beam pattern significantly and blows out foreground light and loses distance projection. It shows that the designers do not understand optics or how to make a proper headlight. A short range test of 20-25' (6~7.5 meters) may show the LED as a clear winner because it is concealing the lack of focus issue. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier when another company validated the old bulky Morimoto 2.0 as 238% brighter than stock when measured at an inadequate distance with an incandescent meter, vs my test showing 3% brighter than stock when tested at an extended distance with a full spectrum meter, and that 3% brighter was dipped way down in the beam. This is again playing out in the video you referenced.
    I welcome all discussion to discover new things and advances in lighting technology. You'll note that credible lighting manufactures like Philips, Osram/Sylvania and Diode Dynamics work on building more focused LEDs that are thinner with smaller emitters, because that is what is needed in a halogen assembly to work properly, and they are not sourcing them from Alibaba or AliExpress. I wouldn't put the previous Morimotos in that group, but I would include their new 3.0 product. Trying to debate that a dated bulky style LED with oversized emitters even with high power, is a new discovery worth considering is a significant step backward in LED evolution and design. Focus is more important to building a LED replacement for a halogen than power. All reputable LED companies have figured this out already and moved away from that dated model because it doesn't work.

    As @Too Stroked points out above, all my lighting threads are aimed at high quality lighting performance. Not to be harsh, but you won't find support for low quality aftermarket projectors running poorly focused LEDs, even if they are super bright because the design is wrong and they don't work correctly. I think an example that might help illustrate this point is the AlphaRex headlights, another Alibaba/AliExpress product resold in the US and marked up significantly. See this post. Almost all reviews comment on how much brighter they are than the Morimoto XB assemblies, but there is way more to a headlight beam pattern than being bright. And in the case of the AlphaRex, the beam pattern is backwards and all the brightness is foreground light. Looks impressive but will make for a horrible headlight. In very much the same way a bulky high power out of focus LED works, looks very bright, but it will all be foreground light and loss of distance light which again makes for a horrible headlight.
     
  17. Dec 16, 2020 at 6:32 PM
    #3977
    Nardogg

    Nardogg Well-Known Member

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  18. Dec 16, 2020 at 7:22 PM
    #3978
    daveeasa

    daveeasa Slowest crimp in the West

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    Ironically perhaps, the H9’s for low beams are kind of my least favorite. They match the HIR high beams but they are just so old school yellow that they don’t get me excited for city driving. Granted, that’s not the point, they are a workhorse and they do their job well where it counts. It’s more that the light on the road reflected back is not sexy and the look of the vehicle from the front seems off, like a yellow haze on the projectors.

    I’m contemplating swapping in the +130’s tonight as we have our 2.5h night drive tomorrow. I don’t know that I can knowingly downgrade though. Hmm.
     
  19. Dec 16, 2020 at 7:28 PM
    #3979
    MikeyMcFly

    MikeyMcFly This is heavy, Doc.

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    The sheer number of times I reference this and it falls on deaf ears is astonishing. Drop in LEDs are HUGELY popular in the C5 world. I try to explain to them that while the stock 9006 are indeed garbage, drop in LEDs are not a viable solution. Of course then I get called stupid because you know, Vette owners, but I digress.

    Had the Tacoma not had the HID shake issue I might have gone that route had I not found your threads. Granted, I went OEM LED, but that being said, I've used your data as a reference in many other areas.
     
  20. Dec 16, 2020 at 7:33 PM
    #3980
    GarlicFarts

    GarlicFarts Bang Ding Ow

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    you can only do it in the C5 if you measure your quarter mile before and after and know how much weight was added. And if you keep it in your maintenance records. And then try to bring those with you to sell the car for 99.5% of what you paid for it because you have all the maintenance records.

    And You need to be wearing one of these while you do any meets with other corvette owners.

    upload_2020-12-16_22-31-31.jpg


    :rofl:

    I’m now not a fan of the stock LED white. I liked white until I drove with yellow and realized holy shit this is so much better. I like the way the truck looks with the white but hot damn, it is so much better to drive with the yellow.
     

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