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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Jan 25, 2019 at 11:03 AM
    #21
    mikmabz

    mikmabz Well-Known Member

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    +1 Changed my stock headlight bulbs with the GE +130s a couple days ago and I am happy with the light output compared to the stock ones. Ordered a pair of GE +130 H4 for my wife’s Highlander. Thanks @crashnburn80.
     
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  2. Jan 25, 2019 at 11:35 AM
    #22
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Higher output LEDs do not help, unfortunately few LED manufactures seem to actually get that. Higher focused LEDs are what is needed so they can project. So while the 'new one' might be 30% brighter, it is still not going to project correctly. Far to many LED makers are focused on lumen output and not light projection.

    The high precision headlight assembly optics are the foundation of your light projection. The best optics possible are OEM, any off the shelf (not-retro) aftermarket assembly is going to be a downgrade with reduced focus and reduced projection. You can certainly put better bulbs in your aftermarket housings which will help performance, but a good bulb will not fix poor optics. Syder is also known for poor optical performance.

    The GE +130s listed in this thread are available in an H7, which is what I would suggest trying.
    https://www.powerbulbs.com/us/product/ge-megalight-ultra-h7-twin

    I've got stuff in the works if I can ever find the time. :spy:

    Yes, definitely. There is such a thing as too much. This is a common problem with HIDs. The output is so high, and the cut off is so extreme that the very high contrast between the two makes it so you cannot see beyond the cut off because there is too much foreground light causing your eyes to be too constricted to do so. So you can only see specifically what your headlights are illuminating and nothing else. Many people do not light HIDs for this reason, as well as some do not like projectors in general for this reason, where as a reflector has a softer cut off so you have an easier time seeing past the cut off horizon. Whiter short wavelength 'white' light is also harder on the eyes and causes strain compared to warmer light. I've started using All Season bulbs similar to the Lunex H9s listed in the post earlier as the color is much easier on the eyes to process.

    You can see a a lose comparison here with some shots of my 2nd gen clear vs all season output:
    [​IMG]

    Output of just the 85/80w All Seasons low beam. More info at post #1520 here.
    [​IMG]

    I should add that to the original post. No company made one as performant as I wanted, so I had Rallylights custom build them for me. It is from the thread here:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-ultimate-foglight-upgrade-h11-not-led-or-hid.435419/

    Copy/Paste of relevant Info:
    Contact Ray at Rallylights by using the contact form: http://www.rallylights.com/contacts
    Select "Electrical" in the drop down and mention you want the Tacoma H11 Fog harness. If you are one of the first few that get my connectors.
    Update:
    Or call Rally Lights at (610)944-3233 ask for Ray and tell him you would like the HL282H11 Wire harness.
    Update: Ray has since retired, but the harness is still available through Ralleylights.

    Note for the harness you need to send them a connector for OEM plug and play, otherwise you will need your own H11 connector to plug into the OEM harness. Also there is a recommend relay change to ditch the Hella China relay and go with a Bosch European one. Details in that thread. I'm also working on a major update to that thread at this time, so I would not recommend purchasing the bulbs listed in that thread.

    They do look extremely promising. They should be here between Jan 30 - Feb 7. I'll be sure to post results the same day they arrive.

    Maybe. I think my fog one might trump it though:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/
     
  3. Jan 25, 2019 at 11:49 AM
    #23
    MDB Taco

    MDB Taco Well-Known Member

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    @crashnburn80, maybe I just missed it, but have you dealt with the 2Stroke 2.0 LED’s from TRS? I’m curious how they compare as well. I bought a pair for my old man’s 2nd gen for Xmas because I heard supposedly they’re the only ones that have a decent cutoff in those older housings (they demo’d a pair in some 2nd gen housings they had laying around when I showed up so I at least had some visual evidence before purchasing).

    Completely different housings I know, but I am curious how they stack up performance wise in your very thorough setup, which I greatly appreciate.
     
  4. Jan 25, 2019 at 12:17 PM
    #24
    kakwvu

    kakwvu Almost Heaven

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    I cancelled the order and got a set of GE +130 H11 bulbs after looking over all your charts and taking in as much as I could I’m one round haha.

    Thanks again for all the info. This should be a sticky.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
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  5. Jan 25, 2019 at 12:32 PM
    #25
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I have not tried those specifically. Those LED are wide, just like the XD one, which will result in loss of focus and distance projection. Moving the light source off center will cause glare in a reflector like the 2nd gen headlight. It might have not been noticeable if you were in a lit area, or if you were not comparing to stock to know what to look for. But LEDs in halogen reflectors cause glare and perform very poorly, as demonstrated in depth in this thread, updated many times with manufactures that claim their lights don't produce glare:
    Why LEDs should not be run in halogen reflectors

    Also note that those LEDs are 2440 raw lumens, or about 1220 actual lumens. Compare that to the efficiency lux/lumens chart in the original post (different housing but similar idea) and you can see that the actual projected output is going to be lower than stock. The light will be whiter, you will have more foreground light which people initially think is an upgrade but it means that your pattern has shifted away from distance projection (not good) and you will have glare. Many people look at the whiter light, more light right in front of the truck and see the glare and think these are traits due to the lights being brighter, but really they are traits of loss of focus and loss of correct pattern projection.

    If you are looking to upgrade 2nd Gen lights without doing an HID projector retrofit, this is the way to go which will be far higher performing than any LED drop in, as the upgrade is designed to work with the OEM optics.
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-ultimate-headlight-upgrade-h4-not-led-or-hid.398066/
     
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  6. Jan 25, 2019 at 1:50 PM
    #26
    perkj

    perkj Well-Known Member

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    @crashnburn80 can you clarify this statement "Note for the harness you need to send them a connector for OEM plug and play, otherwise you will need your own H11 connector to plug into the OEM harness.":

    (1) if I order the HL282H11 I must send them a H11 connector or will it come with it? I ask b/c the p/n itself implies H11.
    (2) assuming you have to send them the H11 male connector, can you link to where one can find the connector?
    (3) if you choose not to send to them, would there be cutting/splicing of the harness required to utilize your own H11 connector?

    Thanks
     
  7. Jan 25, 2019 at 2:27 PM
    #27
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Their supplier does not carry H11 male connectors, and they didn’t want to have to use a second separate supplier just to carry a part for my project. The harness does contain the female H11 connectors to plug the bulbs into, just not the one to connect to the OEM harness.

    I’d just buy some online and list their address as the ‘ship to’ so it goes straight there, and let them know they are coming. You only need one, but I’d buy and send two just in case, since they don’t stock the parts.

    FEELDO Car Male HID Headlight Bulb Socket Connectors For H8/H9/H11
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074TDCKQB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_jL4sCbFZGAE56

    You could also purchase the connector locally or ship them to yourself and DIY. You just need to attach the crimp connectors to the wire ends and assemble the finalized connector. Depending on the amount of raw wire exposed that the harness is shipped with, if you didn’t have them do the connector, you might need to trim some raw wire off, or strip the wire to expose more raw wire for the crimp connectors. Neither should be a big deal.

    I did have that built for the fogs, so the passenger side wire might be a little long. You could offer them feedback if the length could be shortened for headlight use to build it in 2 different lengths. Shorter distance wires have less voltage drop than longer ones.
     
  8. Jan 25, 2019 at 2:38 PM
    #28
    perkj

    perkj Well-Known Member

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    @crashnburn80 thanks for the reply. I called rallylights about 30 mins ago and they stated they now carry the H11 male connectors and they currently have about 27 in stock. based on what you stated above, I believe I just need to tell them to add it to the harness so it can plug into the OEM headlight H11 female plug to trigger the lights to come on with the headlight switch?
     
  9. Jan 25, 2019 at 2:42 PM
    #29
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Oh great! I didn’t realize they had started stocking them. Then yes, they shouldn’t need anything from you. When you turn your lights with the OEM switch it will pull power directly from the battery to power the headlights and operate like stock.
     
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  10. Jan 25, 2019 at 2:58 PM
    #30
    perkj

    perkj Well-Known Member

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    yeah, sounds like tacomaworld has been blowing them up with requests for this harness. The very first question I got when I asked for the price of the harness part number was "are you from tacomaworld?" :thumbsup:
     
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  11. Jan 25, 2019 at 3:00 PM
    #31
    Rockoma5

    Rockoma5 Well-Known Member

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    supernova v4 is supposed to be the sh!t for our trucks and are plug and play
     
  12. Jan 25, 2019 at 3:01 PM
    #32
    bshammer0

    bshammer0 Well-Known Member

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    if this shouldn't be a sticky, nothing should
     
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  13. Jan 25, 2019 at 3:02 PM
    #33
    El Duderino

    El Duderino Who the hell cares about MPGs, its a truck

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    Stuff, things, this, an ADS
    If it’s an LED it isn’t lol
     
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  14. Jan 25, 2019 at 3:02 PM
    #34
    El Duderino

    El Duderino Who the hell cares about MPGs, its a truck

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    @jberry813 can we make this a sticky on the lighting sub thread
     
  15. Jan 25, 2019 at 3:11 PM
    #35
    Rockoma5

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  16. Jan 25, 2019 at 3:24 PM
    #36
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    TacomaWorld is actually the only place you can find it and the part number. It is unlisted on their site as it is a part I had them custom build for me but I wanted to provide the availability to the TW community because as far as I could find, no other H11 12 AWG harness existed. 12 AWG is actually oversized for the H11 connectors and supposedly a PITA.

    @jberry813 I actually put this in the 3rd Gen section since it pertains to 3rd Gen. The 2nd Gen has its own lighting upgrade thread relevant to those trucks stickied in the 2nd Gen section. Place where you see fit.
     
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  17. Jan 25, 2019 at 3:49 PM
    #37
    Too Stroked

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    I just happen to have a set of these (in the box) in my basement. So how would somebody so opposed to slapping LED bulbs in housings designed for halogens end up with a set of these? Well, my son fell hook, line and sinker for the advertising and plunked down $175 of his hard earned cash to buy a set for his 2006 Scion xB (which uses 9003 bulbs just like a 2nd gen Tacoma) even though I advised against it. For any of you with kids, this will sound reasonably familiar. And I should add that the xB has one of the best stock beam patterns I've ever experienced.

    How'd they work? Pretty much exactly as crashnburn80 said they would earlier in this awesome thread. Although the low beam performance was marginally better, it had tons of hot and cold spots. "Splotchy" would be a good description of the pattern. And high beam performance was nothing to write home about. Again, as predicted by crashnburn80.

    So why are they in my basement? Because he bought a newer car and didn't want to leave them in his old xB. They'll probably die in my basement. No way they're going in my truck which as the Ultimate Headlight Upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  18. Jan 25, 2019 at 3:55 PM
    #38
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure a whole lot of people here in TW understand what a great resource we have here. (Some obviously do though!) Crashnburn80 does the flat out best, most unbiased, most scientific and easiest to read articles available anywhere for any price. We're extremely lucky to have him focusing on lighting upgrades specifically for our vehicles. It's a damn good thing he doesn't drive another brand or model because if he did, think of how many of us would be stuck with stock lighting that sucks!
     
  19. Jan 25, 2019 at 4:01 PM
    #39
    El Duderino

    El Duderino Who the hell cares about MPGs, its a truck

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    Stuff, things, this, an ADS
    Just ordered the H11 GE 130W bulbs. Almost ordered Vleds thanks again
     
  20. Jan 25, 2019 at 4:22 PM
    #40
    smikec

    smikec Well-Known Member

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    Add me to the long list of people thanking you for your excellent and well presented threads. I bought GE +130 's based on your previous posts.

    Pulled this one comment out of your post.
    I'm currently using OEM housings, but have seen DEPOT housings reported as having a reputation for being OEM-like or close to. Anyone have experience or thoughts on the internal quality of DEPOT optics (not just the housing)?

    Thanks

    S
     

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