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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Feb 23, 2021 at 8:00 PM
    #4441
    anthony250f

    anthony250f Well-Known Member

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    I have these cougar leds that look extremely similar to the Hikari ultra’s
    6637A432-E15B-471A-A96A-FA4BAAC14DDF.jpg
     
  2. Feb 23, 2021 at 8:06 PM
    #4442
    sicmadek

    sicmadek Member

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    they dont have the same cut out above the chips or a externel canbus driver.

    these are extremely similar to hikari ultras.
    NINEO 9005 HB3 LED Bulbs - CREE Chips - Halogen Replacement 6500K Extremely Bright All-in-One Conversion Kit,360 Degree Adjustable Beam Angle | Fog light https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JCSRS7H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_RFRVPW5RWT4E3TC1MK9Q
     
  3. Feb 23, 2021 at 8:52 PM
    #4443
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Forget replacement LEDs. If you have 9005s you can run 9011 HIRs which is one of the highest performing halogen bulbs in existence, superior to the H9s covered in this thread. It can be difficult to find true HIRs anymore though, many manufactures have reduced cost by building non-HIR versions that meet the output spec range for the bulb type. You can still get real HIR 9011s reboxed under the ACDelco label. I believe these are the highly sought after Toshiba HIR units and no longer manufactured. Amazon will try to point you toward the newer, cheaper non-HIR version, don't fall for it.

    https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-HIR1...1&keywords=ACDelco+9011&qid=1614141936&sr=8-2

    LEDs in rear entry projectors should be clocked at 3 and 9 o'clock, aka to the driver and passenger side, not up/down. Morimotos 2stroke 3.0s are now the thinnest LED with Hikari Ultra coming in second, however while the Morimotos provide better focus the Hikaris are ~10% higher output intensity.
     
    Dopplerplus and xxTacocaTxx like this.
  4. Feb 23, 2021 at 8:59 PM
    #4444
    daveeasa

    daveeasa Slowest crimp in the West

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    I've purchased 2 pairs of NOS Toshiba HIR 9011's from this guy. Legit and awesome.
     
    sicmadek likes this.
  5. Feb 23, 2021 at 9:05 PM
    #4445
    anthony250f

    anthony250f Well-Known Member

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    Those look pretty good. I have cheap projectors so I can’t really expect too much out of them lol. I’m still new to projectors so I can’t really tell what’s correct/not correct or how to really adjust them. Def learning in threads like this.
     
  6. Feb 23, 2021 at 9:11 PM
    #4446
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    LOL, No. Not even close. You cannot have an integrated driver into the LED and have high output. Drivers get extremely hot and heat reduces LED output, which is why all high performance LEDs use an external driver box to separate the heat from the LED so you can have higher output. The $29 price tag should also be a dead giveaway you are buying a toy trinket and not a headlight product.

    Also not the same at all. 3.45mm cross section is up with the worst in this thread, meaning lack of focus, lack of intensity and no distance projection while shifting the pattern to foreground light. It is not at all comparable to the Hikari Ultra product.
    upload_2021-2-23_21-4-47.jpg

    Vs Hikari
    [​IMG]

    Vs OEM halogen.
    [​IMG]

    Science matters. You cannot just go off the looks of the design and say it looks similar to another product. Dimensions, build design and construction all matter. 99.5% of the stuff out there is cheap China garbage with misleading marketing, especially on Amazon. And unfortunately the signs of a bad LED with significant increases of foreground light and loss of distance light naturally look better to the untrained eye, since people favor foreground light, even though that isn't how a headlight is supposed to work.
     
  7. Feb 23, 2021 at 9:19 PM
    #4447
    daveeasa

    daveeasa Slowest crimp in the West

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    I would genuinely like to read this body of testing. If anyone has references to scientific literature on the subject of driving and 4000k+ headlights and how that correlates with and/or contributes to "eye strain" I would very much appreciate link(s). Especially with regard to reaction time. I find that subject quite fascinating and just really want to understand the raw science a little better than what has been discussed here.

    My personal experience with light color is mostly limited to bicycle lighting where I've run halogen, HID and LED for commuting over 25 ish years. While that's a slightly different story than higher speed in a vehicle, the same general principles are involved. I haven't had a chance to explore different colors of LED light yet. That is something which would be super fun to do if there were any opportunity to do commuting.

    In this very specific context we're talking about the vehicle and driver, not oncoming light from other vehicles which cannot really be controlled beyond the use of glasses. Or, more specifically, the impact of light color (or rather wavelength) when reflected back from the road and other surfaces into the eyes of the driver and how that in turn impacts the eye and the brain over extended periods.

    I accept the conclusion that many people naturally find a whiter light as more troublesome from oncoming traffic, though I don't quite know why it's terribly difficult to just not look at other vehicles as they approach, similar to not looking directly at the sun. I am not certain I feel the same way as I haven't done tests with the same vehicle and the same headlights but different colors of light. I think it _might_ be the case that poorly aimed lights are more likely to be whiter in color, especially if accounting for LED bulbs in halogen projectors/reflectors.
     
    907rx7 likes this.
  8. Feb 24, 2021 at 5:20 AM
    #4448
    sicmadek

    sicmadek Member

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    i know how the chips are supposed to face but you must do it with the thinnest part of the board pointing up. For most lights that would be with the cable facing down.
     
  9. Feb 24, 2021 at 5:23 AM
    #4449
    sicmadek

    sicmadek Member

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    trust me i experience everything you are saying about led. I thought 9005sl+ were supposed to be better than 9005 but i guess not.
     
  10. Feb 24, 2021 at 6:22 AM
    #4450
    TacoFergie

    TacoFergie Well-Known Member

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    While I do see you're logic in all points made and understand you are simply trying provide helpful comments. There is reasoning in why he built it like he did.

    -The CBI (actual testing shows closer to 4500k vs Osrams 6k spec) bulbs are a fantastic choice overall as they are closer to a pure white compared to many HID bulbs out there. I have the NightBreaker Laser bulbs and at times I would like them to be a little on the cooler end of kelvin scale. While the NB's are technically the brightest D2S bulb currently, the CBI isn't far behind. Plus, he can always change the bulb if he'd like. If he did an LED projector or OEM LED it would be an even cooler kelvin temp.

    -If I remember correctly when discussing the build with him he was going to use 38w ballasts. HID bulb kelvin ratings are tested at 35w, when an HID bulb is being driven by a higher wattage they get warmer in kelvin rating. I know that a CBB (actual testing on 35w is closer to 5500k vs Osrams 7k spec) ran on 50w ballasts ends up dropping the kelvin rating equal to the CBI color. So assuming that the ballasts are putting out 38w vs 35w, the CBI bulbs would likely be sitting closer to the 4k range which is pretty darn good.

    -The Morimoto HB is a decent performer, granted there are better but it is what it is. What it would do is fill in the high beam of the RX350. The RX350 high beam is meh compared to other HID projectors, mainly because the hot spot on the RX350 isn't as focused as other projectors. The hotspot is more spread out than most which is why it is so desirable as very good low beam that is very wide and even light that isn't fatiguing. Plus it fills in the headlight ascetically and looks a lot nicer!!

    -I agree with your assessment on the driving pattern in the fog light position. But I see his reasoning. I believe he drives long distances on 2 lane roads without much, if any oncoming traffic. I think the focused hotspot it has may help seeing critters that might be on the road, like armadillos. I've heard they can do a lot of damage to a vehicle.

    To each their own, it works for him and if it doesn't bother oncoming traffic it's all good. The best part about his whole setup is that it's completely serviceable! Bulbs can be changed, ballasts can be changed and the lenses on the DD SS3's can be swapped to any other beam pattern as well.
     
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  11. Feb 24, 2021 at 10:05 AM
    #4451
    Kairide

    Kairide Well-Known Member

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    Not sure the OP's thinking, but I did an RX-350 retrofit as well and went with the Profile High Lens for my high beam set up. The RX-350 projector is definitely good enough for high beams, but changing out the high beam reflector, to a projector allows you to black out the high beam bucket. Cosmetically I look the look better with the high beam bucket blacked out and a projector lens in lieu of the reflector. The Profile High Lens also has switchback LEDs, so it can be used as DRLs and turn signals in addition to the high beam. I'm not sure how the output of the Morimoto LED high beam, but the Profile High lens put out more of a spotlight, than a flood of light. Is adding a dedicated high beam projector necessary with an RX-350 retrofit, no, but in my opinion it looks better. It doesn't negatively impact the light output, which is better than most people can say with their choices of headlight mods.

    As for the rest of the OP's setup....no comment. To each their own I guess :cookiemonster:
     
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  12. Feb 24, 2021 at 10:49 AM
    #4452
    bacon_st

    bacon_st Well-Known Member

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    Ah, thanks for sharing.
     
  13. Feb 24, 2021 at 11:04 AM
    #4453
    bacon_st

    bacon_st Well-Known Member

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    This is what happened in my case. I have sought advice here in this thread much farther back when I first came here seeking counsel about my lights.
    I have had previously murdered out and made my headlights badass on my first retrofit with only Meso switchback Side markers, and All Amber DRLs.
    But as I had mentioned in my post linked above, it affected my highbeam. I also wanted a better tuned projector low beams.
    Some folks here were very helpful in putting together my shopping list for my second retrofit.
    While I considered Morimoto's strongly for my Low beams, I wanted to stick with the classic RX350s as many here subscribed and advised.
    Now I have badass looks and function for high and low beams.
    For my next mod for lightbars, I'm looking with amber ones that can give me a beam pattern that is wide spread horizontally, but with a constricted vertical light beam spread.
     
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  14. Feb 24, 2021 at 11:06 AM
    #4454
    ryanvar42

    ryanvar42 That is your opinion. It is wrong.

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    How much did building this cost? Idk anything about lights and what you guys all said im just curious on price
     
  15. Feb 24, 2021 at 11:33 AM
    #4455
    bacon_st

    bacon_st Well-Known Member

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    Most of the information for all the parts is available in this thread. Some items in there are for another project that is my employer paid like the high output 270Amp alternator, 4x100Ah Li ion battery banks etc for offline power.
    Retrofitter Leo @Customretrofitheadlights donated 100% of the money I gave. And doesn't include the previous retrofit he did on this same headlights for $250.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  16. Feb 24, 2021 at 11:34 AM
    #4456
    ryanvar42

    ryanvar42 That is your opinion. It is wrong.

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    aight too complicated. Ill just assume a lot
     
  17. Feb 24, 2021 at 2:40 PM
    #4457
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Well-Known Member

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    @TacoFergie

    All reasonable points. I was't aware the CBIs tested that significantly lower in kelvin than they were rated. And overdriving does seem to shift it even lower, so with that in mind its not the 6000k I was thinking. That's pretty reasonable overall. As for the rx350 projectors, I haven't seen much mention of what tuning does to the highbeam, so that's a fair point too - there's a tradeoff in everything. I also understand the want for an aesthetic result. I saw another poster on this forum had done a set of morimoto bi-led projectors with a set of diode dynamics ss3 pods in the highbeam location, and I've seen other mods elsewhere where other pod type driving lights (or spots, driving beam patterns are pretty recent in the aftermarket it seems) in other lamps highbeam locations. There's options, and without any hands on with the morimoto highbeam unit, I would probably lean towards one of these other options (personal take).

    >"To each their own, it works for him and if it doesn't bother oncoming traffic it's all good."

    Agreed. That's basically my only concern with the driving-as-fog setup.

    @bacon_st

    Not trying to knock you down man, just my take on the setup. It does look very well put together, and I wasn't aware that your bulbs aren't the super-blue they are rated as, especially overdriven.
     
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  18. Feb 24, 2021 at 10:29 PM
    #4458
    viruszzz94

    viruszzz94 Member

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    The new hikaris have the driver integrated in the leds. That's why I was asking if anyone here has tested them.
    https://www.amazon.com/HIKARI-Acme-X-Brightness-Driving-Vision/dp/B08S37X311
     
  19. Feb 24, 2021 at 11:40 PM
    #4459
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Those certainly have far more mass/bulk on the heat sink to deal with an integrated driver vs most others, which will help with that style of design. The marketing is again garbage though, claiming faster turn on due to the integrated driver vs external which isn't the case and still leaves the LED to combat the integrated heat problem even with larger heat sinks, when mounting it externally eliminates the issue. The bulky resulting heat sink could also be problematic in many vehicles for install. However the emitter layout in those is a significant downgrade from the Ultras. The double row stacked emitter chip set is going to be way larger than a halogen filament, meaning worse focus and more foreground light.
     
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  20. Feb 25, 2021 at 6:10 AM
    #4460
    TacoFergie

    TacoFergie Well-Known Member

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    Depending on what you're looking for and of course price. The one I would choose for yellow is Diode Dynamics Stage Series light bars. They have a few beam patterns available (even an SAE fog pattern) and the price is decent.

    https://www.diodedynamics.com/off-road-auxiliary-led/light-bars.html

    There is another option that is really cool but pricey!! Feniex AI series light bars. The beam pattern and brightness is adjustable. While it is not yellow, you may be able to put some film over the lens. They manufacture emergency vehicle lighting so quality is top notch. Even if it's not a viable option for you, it's a really cool product and demo videos on youtube are really impressive.

    https://www.ultrabrightlightz.com/feniex-ai-off-road-light-bar-27/
     
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