1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Apr 26, 2021 at 1:08 PM
    #4741
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Member:
    #311172
    Messages:
    164
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    99 4Runner SR5
    3" OME lift, heavy coils f/r 3/16" steel skids Modified Coastal Offroad diy bumper 5spd swap ('98 donor)

    Arguably, a large reflector (like the 2nd gen headlamps) is actually *More* forgiving to a large, high wattage filament or a large (effectively out of focus) LED chipset. A projector has a small, but very precisely formed reflector inside it that helps create the beampattern. Its not just left up to the front lens.

    So a projector can deal with physically restricting unfocused/improperly focused light, but it is more sensitive to imorecise lightsource placement.

    @Steve_Armstrong

    No, the older Hikari Ultras would still perform better. The newer bulb has two sets of emitters, meaning either one is completely out of focus, or they're both out of focus for whatever lamp you stick them in. They'll be brighter, but without the ability to be focused forward/down the road.
     
    crashnburn80 [OP] likes this.
  2. Apr 26, 2021 at 1:36 PM
    #4742
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    11,411
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB TRD OR MGM
    Go Hawks!
    The only thing special about a projector is it has an internal light shield to prevent/minimize glare. Unfortunately this has lead many to incorrectly believe that you can put any light source in a projector and it will function the same, when that isn't the case. As an example that people can relate to, think about an adjustable flashlight like a Maglight, where you can change the pattern by adjusting the reflector position. If you bring the light source into focus you end up with a smaller high intensity beam which projects further, and out of focus results in a larger pattern that is not as bright, and is more of a flood light which will not project as far. A replacement LED is somewhat similar to this concept, except rather than adjusting the reflector bowl in a projector, you are adjusting the light source, and LEDs move the light source out of focus. How much out of focus depends on the design of the LED, so your headlight pattern becomes more of a flood light in most cases.

    However from the driver seat, you are seeing more light right in front of you due to the flood effect, which makes you believe you can see better and think your lights are brighter, but headlights should illuminate distance not immediately in front of the vehicle. Like the Maglight example, you have shifted away from the focused light that is required to illuminate distance, but it looks brighter because of the light now immediately in front of you, which is supposed to be minimized in relation to the distance light in a headlight. So driving on a dark highway, you may over drive your headlights since the light may not illuminate an obstacle with enough time for you to safely react to it, because the distance projection is reduced.

    The key to making a replacement LED light that works acceptably is to to make it as small as possible and accurately replicate a halogen filament in placement. However the LED also needs to generate enough output to overcome the performance tax it will pay for effectively not matching a halogen filament. It is tricky to make very small high output LEDs since heat is an issue, and as LEDs get hot their performance drops, one of the ways to help reduce heat is add more material for heat transfer as a heat sink, but that often makes the LED bulkier and less focused and now you are back to a poor LED. Both the Hikari Ultras and Morimoto 2stroke 3.0s have come up with different creative solutions to this problem, while having the most focused designs on the market which is why they excel when most others don't.
     
    xxTacocaTxx, JagoTaco and Toy_Runner like this.
  3. Apr 26, 2021 at 1:45 PM
    #4743
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    11,411
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB TRD OR MGM
    Go Hawks!
    These new ones have been posted a few times. They have mounted the very hot driver on the back of the LED that needs to be kept cool. Good for the marketing of the packaging, but a very poor design choice from a performance perspective. As LEDs get hot the output is reduced, which is why you have the driver separate from the LED, to remove significant heat from the LED so that is performance better. Maybe the fans can keep up with that, but performance would be better with the driver separate, there is a reason no high output LEDs use that design. Maybe I'll try them at some point, but I don't find the design promising.
     
  4. Apr 26, 2021 at 2:53 PM
    #4744
    Steve Armstrong

    Steve Armstrong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2021
    Member:
    #360297
    Messages:
    97
    Gender:
    Male
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    2021 White TRD Sport DCSB 2WD A/T
    Good stuff! :thumbsup:
     
  5. Apr 26, 2021 at 5:48 PM
    #4745
    jimmerheck

    jimmerheck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Member:
    #248007
    Messages:
    637
    Gender:
    Male
    Vancouver, WA
    Vehicle:
    2019 Tacoma Limited in white
    I know this is a headlight thread, but I still wish they made an inexpensive replacement bulb for the weak foglight bulbs in my 19 Limited.
     
  6. Apr 26, 2021 at 6:43 PM
    #4746
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    11,411
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB TRD OR MGM
    Go Hawks!
    Swap halogen assembly’s with a TRD truck to get a huge boost in output with H11 based TRD fogs. Lots of performance options there. Otherwise swap to SAE LED fogs (see the SAE thread), Diode Dynamics are some of the best and will outperform the halogen options.
     
  7. Apr 28, 2021 at 4:41 PM
    #4747
    replica9000

    replica9000 Just your average meatbag.

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Member:
    #5782
    Messages:
    15,429
    First Name:
    Jason
    Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
    Vehicle:
    2019 T4R OR Premium
    Thought one of my Philips H9s blew today. As I'm removing the dust cap, I'm smelling sometime burnt. This is one of those adapters I bought from Amazon.

    IMG_20210428_193716.jpg
     
    907rx7 likes this.
  8. Apr 28, 2021 at 5:25 PM
    #4748
    tclavell

    tclavell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2020
    Member:
    #336897
    Messages:
    663
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Troy
    Phoenix, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2020 TRD Sport
    JagoTaco, 907rx7 and replica9000 like this.
  9. Apr 28, 2021 at 11:07 PM
    #4749
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    11,411
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB TRD OR MGM
    Go Hawks!
    Was that the adapter linked in the thread? I've not tested them but added the link based on others recommendations. If so, I'll remove it in lieu of something better as that is completely unacceptable for one of my threads.
     
  10. Apr 29, 2021 at 1:12 AM
    #4750
    replica9000

    replica9000 Just your average meatbag.

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Member:
    #5782
    Messages:
    15,429
    First Name:
    Jason
    Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
    Vehicle:
    2019 T4R OR Premium
    This is the set I ordered:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TXRWOPA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_NJNTEQDTPDAKWPQ5PYJF?_encoding=UTF8

    I bought them 18 months ago, and the 4Runner low beams are sealed behind a dust cover, so i know moisture didn't cause this :notsure:
     
  11. Apr 29, 2021 at 1:14 AM
    #4751
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    11,411
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB TRD OR MGM
    Go Hawks!
    907rx7 and replica9000 like this.
  12. Apr 29, 2021 at 2:30 AM
    #4752
    mattleg

    mattleg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2018
    Member:
    #264744
    Messages:
    604
    First Name:
    Matt
    Kansas
    Vehicle:
    2020 OR DCSB AT 4WD
    Is there data on the current draw for the high beam on the OEM LED headlights? I saw the low beam was 2.34A at 13.8V, but didn't see any data on the high beam.
     
  13. Apr 29, 2021 at 4:46 AM
    #4753
    RushT

    RushT Amateur Everythingist

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2017
    Member:
    #238171
    Messages:
    4,230
    Gender:
    Male
    North Texas
    Vehicle:
    '18 DCSB TRDOR Inferno
    +1 on this. I had a similar experience.
     
    replica9000 likes this.
  14. Apr 29, 2021 at 6:01 AM
    #4754
    Aws123

    Aws123 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2020
    Member:
    #335564
    Messages:
    25
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2019 tacoma off road
  15. Apr 29, 2021 at 6:15 AM
    #4755
    daveeasa

    daveeasa Slowest crimp in the West

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Member:
    #328079
    Messages:
    1,847
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2016 OR 4x4 DCSB MGM 6MT
    I have bags of these from various sources. I can post more photos of them. They aren’t something I am happy with myself. OEM quality feels different to my hands and eyes.

    The h9 female connectors I like best (Aptiv aka Delphi aka Metripack) I cannot seem to find sockets (terminals) for. I will keep trying. I also can’t seem to find OEM connectors which are an exact match. That would make me happiest.

    I’m not certain that it is easy to depin the OEM females but since the male connectors are cheap, easy to find, and seal well with the OEM females, and since they would be farther from the heat source, there isn’t a great argument to doing the extra work vs a short extension harness.

    The key to the whole thing is finding a good female.

    73C839B6-2803-4898-92C7-793EE2305AB1.jpg 01CEBAC9-EAF3-4CD3-A363-8958FC299E27.jpg F050E56C-1672-47D5-BF90-11E6EFE06A35.jpg

    OEM connectors for visual comparison
    A2C4008F-4919-4FA2-912C-5EE4BB52A40E.jpg A523A2D9-019E-49EB-92E6-C7321940D168.jpg 5CB55835-0471-48E7-81DE-58E062BCF87A.jpg
     
    907rx7 and tclavell like this.
  16. Apr 29, 2021 at 7:25 AM
    #4756
    SRBenjamin

    SRBenjamin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2019
    Member:
    #310696
    Messages:
    687
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Benny
    I just cut the stock plastic on the H11 bulb plug. I guess one could get an oem h9 plug to replace the h11 plug.

    The adaptors of Amazon were total junk.
     
  17. Apr 29, 2021 at 7:48 AM
    #4757
    klavender1

    klavender1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Member:
    #163705
    Messages:
    1,411
    Columbia/Lugoff, South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2005 GX 470
    I have a sharp flush cut wire cutter. Snipped the tab inside the H9 very cleanly and just plugged into the factory tab. Much simpler than using adapters.
     
  18. Apr 29, 2021 at 8:01 AM
    #4758
    Aws123

    Aws123 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2020
    Member:
    #335564
    Messages:
    25
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2019 tacoma off road
    If you get the oem male h9 connectors it comes with no wire. So then if you break the factory h11 connector depinning it, it won't be a big deal. Then you can just snap in the new h9 connector. I can get you an oem part number from our parts guys but they probably will be on the pricey side.
    I've done this several times on customer cars and it's like new again. Sometimes connectors get smashed in a wreck and the wires are fine.. Depinning can be tricky, but it's not bad once you do a few of them. You just need a mini flathead screwdriver.
     
  19. Apr 29, 2021 at 8:06 AM
    #4759
    daveeasa

    daveeasa Slowest crimp in the West

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Member:
    #328079
    Messages:
    1,847
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2016 OR 4x4 DCSB MGM 6MT
    If you can get a bunch at reasonable prices and some socket terminals (or identify the manufacturer’s part numbers for connector and sockets) that would help out the community as I could build them into an extension harness. I have no inside connections with parts departments and am having no luck finding OEM quality from the usual vendors.

    I wouldn’t expect someone who finds an H9 bulb base mod difficult to feel comfortable depinning an OEM connector. Hence the harness as a plug and play option.
     
  20. Apr 29, 2021 at 8:27 AM
    #4760
    Aws123

    Aws123 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2020
    Member:
    #335564
    Messages:
    25
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2019 tacoma off road
    82824-04060 is the oem h9 connector. $30 though. Pretty crazy lol. That's with no wire though. Better off just modding the bulb.
     

Products Discussed in

To Top