1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Aug 22, 2021 at 1:35 PM
    #4961
    smikec

    smikec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Member:
    #272376
    Messages:
    387
    Gender:
    Male
    Edit/Correction- see you wrote $1100 per side ($2200 total)

    For a proper HID retrofit, last time I asked for a quote from a vendor in US, plus shipping, $ exchange, it came out close to the $1100 mark, might be cheaper now. That is, opening the headlights, rx350 projector retrofit +/- lens, quality ballasts, bulbs. You could keep your eye out for some used retrofits already completed, and perhaps save a bit


    just putting re-based HID bulbs in the OEM projector is not recommended.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  2. Aug 22, 2021 at 1:42 PM
    #4962
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Member:
    #328079
    Messages:
    6,733
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    PNW
    Vehicle:
    2016 Tacoma OR DCSB 6MT, 2005 RC 5MT PreRunner, 2002 Tundra SR5 RCLB 4x4
    Still a ways behind but catching up to @crashnburn80 in the bench test headlight category. Especially since two at his house are mine as well. Just picked this puppy up for $100 to use for harness validation.

    522DDE8A-06F4-452A-9467-393267321118.jpg 3B825C79-0148-42EB-8151-81562A9346C2.jpg 3DF7D29E-A761-49C5-A36B-C000A2FAE907.jpg
     
  3. Aug 22, 2021 at 2:38 PM
    #4963
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    14,563
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2003 DCSB TRD OR
    Go Hawks!
    I’d recommend an H9 swap. Coming from LED you’d likely prefer the Hella Performance 2.0 H9s over the Philips. There will be less foreground light than Hikari, and color temp will be lower but you will have better distance projection. HIDs in the OEM halogen projectors are not recommended.
     
  4. Aug 22, 2021 at 6:08 PM
    #4964
    travadol

    travadol Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2020
    Member:
    #322617
    Messages:
    217
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Travis
    Prairies, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2020 Cement DCSB OffRoad Premium
    I made this exact switch (Hikari to Hella 2.0 H9s) and while it took a few days for me to adjust to the lower colour temperature, I'm so happy I made the switch. The beam pattern is more full, it has an actual uplight, and the distance projection cannot be matched by the Hikaris.
     
  5. Aug 23, 2021 at 10:04 PM
    #4965
    Rainoffire

    Rainoffire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Member:
    #255034
    Messages:
    3,082
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2017 QS DCLB TRD Sport
    Oh he's back,
    Back again

    :popcorn:
     
  6. Aug 23, 2021 at 10:05 PM
    #4966
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    14,563
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2003 DCSB TRD OR
    Go Hawks!
    Was having your last thread locked for recommending people put lower output fog LEDs in the headlights which fail to meet federal regulations for minimum output and specifically advised against by Sylvania not enough?

    Edit: Covered in post #31 here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
  7. Aug 23, 2021 at 10:23 PM
    #4967
    smikec

    smikec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Member:
    #272376
    Messages:
    387
    Gender:
    Male
    Stop it.
    While others have tried to explain it with words, perhaps drawings may help

    Your argument in the other thread, that the stop sign is illuminated, is irrelevant. A flashlight will illuminate a reflective sign. Even your own picture shows short-throw illumination right in front of the truck, which is the problem - you are posting exactly what is wrong with your setup

    Your picture
    junk.jpg

    OEM LED
    good.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
    Toy_Runner, grogorat and Rainoffire like this.
  8. Aug 23, 2021 at 10:31 PM
    #4968
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Member:
    #23469
    Messages:
    5,291
    New Mexico
    So maybe it’s intentional that the low beams suck so bad. (T4R here too)
     
  9. Aug 24, 2021 at 12:58 AM
    #4969
    Sasquatchian

    Sasquatchian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Member:
    #254922
    Messages:
    602
    Gender:
    Male
    "Like a rubber ball he keeps bouncing back marked insufficient funds" - with apologies to the original songwriter. A true glutton for punishment.
     
  10. Aug 24, 2021 at 1:44 AM
    #4970
    Rainoffire

    Rainoffire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Member:
    #255034
    Messages:
    3,082
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2017 QS DCLB TRD Sport
    So from the video, your headlights glared right into the incoming vehicle. Might need to adjust your headlights lower.

    Oh ye, got em lowbeam pics you ask for. Don't really understand why you wanted to see them though, since they are functionally superior in nearly every category to any drop-in led bulb.
     
  11. Aug 24, 2021 at 2:11 AM
    #4971
    Sasquatchian

    Sasquatchian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Member:
    #254922
    Messages:
    602
    Gender:
    Male
    Dude could have saved himself so much time and trouble by just ordering the the OEM LED's with his truck, which are a huge bargain when you get them that way and still not too bad when you get them later, like I did. What he would have seen, and he keeps harping on how wide the beam is, is that the factory LED's are much much wider, far smoother with almost no hotspots like the projector has and more useful light in the right places in every part of the beam. Now, I realize I'm not writing for him because he thinks he's smarter than everyone else, even the folks here who have a shit-ton more knowledge and experience that he does, but it's for the other folks who come to this thread and might still need some convincing or haven't made up their minds or simply want to learn.
     
  12. Aug 24, 2021 at 7:05 AM
    #4972
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Member:
    #328079
    Messages:
    6,733
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    PNW
    Vehicle:
    2016 Tacoma OR DCSB 6MT, 2005 RC 5MT PreRunner, 2002 Tundra SR5 RCLB 4x4
    Any T4R owners who are contemplating a swap to the 2021 LED assemblies, I'm working on a conversion harness with a dude in Hawaii. Hit me up if you might like to get in on that. I think it's super straightforward. I don't believe crash has tested this assembly yet?
     
  13. Aug 24, 2021 at 7:25 AM
    #4973
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    14,563
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2003 DCSB TRD OR
    Go Hawks!
    Only the T4R halogen assemblies, not the OEM LED. I get the impression from IIHS ratings and owners that have the T4R OEM LED that it isn’t up to par with the Tacoma 3rd Gen LED units but have no comparison data other than the IIHS data.
     
    daveeasa[QUOTED] likes this.
  14. Aug 24, 2021 at 9:02 AM
    #4974
    Rainoffire

    Rainoffire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Member:
    #255034
    Messages:
    3,082
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2017 QS DCLB TRD Sport
    Anecdotal, but my friend has a 2021 T4R with the LED Headlights, and the low beams are pretty decent but highbeams is quite laughably bad. The Tacoma's headlights have an advantage in almost every front, other than I guess a crisp cutoff. I believe the Tacoma's are even cheaper by $100 per headlight too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  15. Aug 24, 2021 at 11:12 AM
    #4975
    Sasquatchian

    Sasquatchian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Member:
    #254922
    Messages:
    602
    Gender:
    Male
    I posted in another thread regarding those RAV4 lights, in that they only have three segments for the low beam vs. five for the Tacoma, so it's no surprise that they don't perform as well, assuming they're using the same core parts. The IIHS tests are only valid if they happen to get a properly aligned headlamp and since they don't re-align the lights before testing, it's all to easy to have a mis-aligned headlight that normally would test excellent, test barely acceptable, so you really have to take their results for what they're worth, whatever that means.
     
    xxTacocaTxx likes this.
  16. Aug 24, 2021 at 6:32 PM
    #4976
    RedWings44

    RedWings44 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Member:
    #326226
    Messages:
    7,622
    Gender:
    Male
    Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2017 Black TRD Off Road 4x4, 2019 MGM 4Runner SR5
    I just wanted to throw this out here:

    For a while I've been talking about how there's more to lighting than simple lux readings. I've mentioned having the proper spectrum of light in your given environment makes a big difference as well. This is why a proper LED bulb may not necessarily have as high of Lux readings but still appear to light much better. I've observed this but never really had a great explanation for it.

    This video has a much more detailed (and better sounding) explanation. Granted it is comparing LEDs to High Pressure Sodium lights but it does talk about color temperature and differences in seeing during the day vs night, as well as not needing as much light output to achieve the same visibility. The same principles can apply to halogen vs LED light output.

     
  17. Aug 25, 2021 at 10:02 PM
    #4977
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    14,563
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2003 DCSB TRD OR
    Go Hawks!
    That isn't how halogens work. HPS lights have very limited window of spectrum output, halogens have the best (largest) spectrum output of any light source.

    Human vision is far more sensitive to high color temps vs warmer color temps, which has both pros and cons. The video suggest 570nm is the best color wavelength for night vision. Your assumption is that halogens must be similar to NPS lights, but the spectrum is entirely different regardless of color temp. Below you can compare the OEM LEDs to the Philips H9 swap at 570nm. While HPS lights produce next to nothing at 570nm, the same is not true for halogen, since halogen lights produce the complete full spectrum unlike other light sources.

    A2EF5995-C0A4-4CA4-92C6-EA765F1A3604.jpg C462E605-E377-4FA8-9C1A-E00B5A564010.jpg


    What the video doesn't cover is loss of color perception using a low CRI automotive grade LED source vs halogen (since comparing to HPS) and the driver fatigue experienced by using high color temp low CRI blue based lights, not to mention the low performance of high color temp light sources in poor weather conditions.
     
    907rx7 likes this.
  18. Aug 25, 2021 at 10:22 PM
    #4978
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    14,563
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2003 DCSB TRD OR
    Go Hawks!
    And to provide a 570nm wavelength analysis against the highest output replacement LED (Hikari), halogens completely put even the best replacement LEDs to shame.

    FAA3D749-A76B-4BF4-B923-9FCA9F3724CC.jpg 1A98BF49-B12F-4D23-92C6-FB5CAB5F51D3.jpg
     
    grogorat and Toy_Runner like this.
  19. Aug 26, 2021 at 1:59 AM
    #4979
    RedWings44

    RedWings44 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Member:
    #326226
    Messages:
    7,622
    Gender:
    Male
    Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2017 Black TRD Off Road 4x4, 2019 MGM 4Runner SR5
    First thing I want to state is that I'm aware that HPS and halogen are two completely different things and this video is more talking about street lighting and barely mentions headlights. However the explanations on wavelength and nighttime sensitivity were pretty comprehensive in my opinion. In particular it addressed scotopic light content and had a chart which did feature halogen lights. As the color temperature in the LEDs increased so too did the scotopic light output. Around 4k and above is where the LEDs started having more scotopic light content than halogen bulbs. Given that we are more sensitive to scotopic light content at night it makes sense that you would seem to see better with less light output. The tradeoff of course is carcadian rythm disruption but that's a whole other rabbit hole. That's of course assuming all other things are the same and not considering housings, reflectors, optimal positioning of the light source relative to the reflectors, etc as is typically one of the main issues with aftermarket LEDs.

    Screenshot_20210826-045321_Samsung Internet.jpg
     
  20. Aug 26, 2021 at 12:33 PM
    #4980
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    14,563
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2003 DCSB TRD OR
    Go Hawks!
    It is interesting the studies on light sources for street lights but not specifically car headlights. I’ve also read a study on LED street lights that says they are less safe for older drivers as the high blue light content scatters in the eyes creating glare in the eye leading to degraded vision and vision strain, and for older people this is significantly worse, especially in wet conditions. I think I posted the article somewhere in this thread or the SAE thread, I’d have to look. It’s also worth noting that the American Medical Association has stated that blue-rich LED street lighting can decrease visual acuity and safety and specifically recommends street lighting to be no greater than 3000k. Of course Illuminating Engineering Society (IES) disagreed with doctors from the AMA and rebuked their recommendations for street lights.
     
    RedWings44[QUOTED] likes this.

Products Discussed in

To Top