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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Oct 5, 2021 at 12:08 PM
    #5221
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

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    Oh, and on that note, the 4runner led headlight note, I sent out the conversion harness to the guy who initially asked for them earlier this week. So we should know if they are good to go by next week I'd hope? Unless he takes as long to try them as I took to source and build them :)

    If it's good to go, it's a very very simple harness and not expensive or difficult by any means.

    I suppose the best next step for all of you T4R's is getting one tested side by side with a halogen/led hybrid to know what the numbers say? The HIR bulb for high beam, despite the color differences, could be a difficult option to beat.
     
  2. Oct 5, 2021 at 1:32 PM
    #5222
    JeffB

    JeffB Well-Known Member

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    Hey, @crashnburn80, I'm looking at these because the price is right and they have DOT certs.
    Do you know of Z-OffRoad or tested any of their products?
    I'm just curious and know when to go to an expert.
     
  3. Oct 5, 2021 at 3:17 PM
    #5223
    Spike Spiegel

    Spike Spiegel Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully Soon
     
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  4. Oct 5, 2021 at 3:19 PM
    #5224
    Spike Spiegel

    Spike Spiegel Well-Known Member

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    I’ll be needing one
     
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  5. Oct 5, 2021 at 4:41 PM
    #5225
    klavender1

    klavender1 Well-Known Member

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    Off topic but one of my co-worker has a 1999 Lexus LX470 that takes an H1 low beam bulb. It legit looks like a fog light bulb! Any suggestions on a better bulb or how to get better output?
     
  6. Oct 5, 2021 at 5:24 PM
    #5226
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    If he wants LED, an LED assembly is the correct way to go. Both the Tacoma and 4Runner LED headlights have shown to be a substantial upgrade over what their halogen counterpart units are capable of, even with the best bulb upgrades. IIHS gives the Tacoma LED headlights their highest rating. The 4Runner units have not been IIHS tested, or at least not published. But note that OEM LED doesn’t necessarily mean they will be good. Both Wrangler/Gladiator and F150 LED headlights rate very poorly. IIHS doesn’t check for aim in their tests, they run the lights as delivered from the factory, so there is some variability in results. I haven’t tried Tundra lights so I cannot comment with any independent data, but IIHS rates the Tundra LEDs and halogens both as Marginal.
    https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/toyota/tundra-crew-cab-pickup/2020
     
    fxrman[QUOTED] likes this.
  7. Oct 5, 2021 at 5:30 PM
    #5227
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Well-Known Member

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    Osram nightbreaker +150. H1 has been around for a long time, there are lots of high wattage options (75, 100, 130, 150w) but higher wattage will not necessarily translate to improved performance, especially with stock wiring (more like popped fuses and melted wires/plugs/reflectors with 130/150w bulbs). The nightbreaker laser +150 is a stock 55 wattage bulb that offers a more tightly wound and precisely placed filament.
     
  8. Oct 5, 2021 at 5:42 PM
    #5228
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Good projectors seem to favor high efficiency performance bulbs over higher wattage bulbs of the same type. I’d suggest the Tungsram Nightbreaker Xenon +120s.

    While an H11 projector vs H1, see post #3390. The Tungsram (formerly GE) +130 outperforms Philips latest +150 Pros. The Tungsram Xenon +120s are slightly higher performing than those +130s. The Tungsram Platinums did even slightly better, though I’m unsure of their availability in the H1 base.

    That is somewhat an indirect answer, with different projectors and different bulb base, but in a projector Tungsram has consistently been the highest performing high efficiency bulb, with their Megalight, Platinum and Xenons.
     
    klavender1[QUOTED] likes this.
  9. Oct 5, 2021 at 5:49 PM
    #5229
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    That does not appear to be a lighting manufacturer. It looks like a company that just relabels Chinese products under their own name. What are you looking at specifically?
     
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  10. Oct 6, 2021 at 6:05 AM
    #5230
    klavender1

    klavender1 Well-Known Member

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    This is the only Tungsram Xenon H1 I can find that isn't completely blue. It doesn't say +120 so I'm not sure if it's the same bulb.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tungsram-H1-Nighthawk-Xenon-Halogen-Bulb-2-pack/761405088

    I can find Philips Xtreme Vision +130 and also the Osram nightbreaker +150. Reading your other post, I can imagine bulb life will play a factor as well. It seems the Philips +130 is rated at 400 hours. It seems the Osram is rated at much less from what I can find.

    https://www.amazon.com/generation-brightness-headlamp-64150NL-HCB-passenger/dp/B07FXH9352

    https://www.amazon.com/Philips-12258XV-S2-X-tremeVision-headlamp/dp/B00NMEEL5Q
     
  11. Oct 6, 2021 at 7:08 AM
    #5231
    TacoFergie

    TacoFergie Well-Known Member

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    Found it for ya! I have purchased from these guys many times, surprisingly fast shipping considering it comes out of the UK. Usually 3-4 days, 5 max.

    https://www.powerbulbs.com/us/product/tungsram-megalight-ultra-h1-twin
     
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  12. Oct 6, 2021 at 7:39 AM
    #5232
    klavender1

    klavender1 Well-Known Member

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  13. Oct 6, 2021 at 7:47 AM
    #5233
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Those Tungsram Xenon’s are the correct ones. When comparing bulb life there are 2 specs, B3 (3% of bulbs have failed) and Tc (63% of bulbs have failed). Be sure you are comparing the same spec. Packages usually list Tc, but looking it up online could be eaither, so it is often best to get it from the manufacturer product page which specifies both.
     
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  14. Oct 6, 2021 at 7:58 AM
    #5234
    TacoFergie

    TacoFergie Well-Known Member

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    Sad day....I'm sorry I did not catch that, my bad.
     
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  15. Oct 6, 2021 at 8:06 AM
    #5235
    klavender1

    klavender1 Well-Known Member

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    No worries!

    Thanks again!
     
  16. Oct 7, 2021 at 8:11 AM
    #5236
    fxrman

    fxrman Well-Known Member

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    Got the pro led headlights for the taco yesterday..!!
    Now the harness from daveeasa..!!
     
  17. Oct 7, 2021 at 11:46 PM
    #5237
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The Korean made Sylvania/Osram 9011 HIR1

    This is the latest 9011 HIR1, from Osram manufactured out of Korea. Unlike many modern 9011s, these bulbs maintain the IR coating to redirect energy back to the filament to produce greater output. This is the first 9011/HIR1 bulb that has been claimed by others to outperform the legendary Toshiba HIRs. It is important to note these bulbs are not the same as the Sylvania/Osram 9011 units manufactured in Germany.

    CD84094F-08A7-481A-A961-2B0EF227D5F9.jpg

    Toshiba left, Osram/Sylvania right
    B2CA275C-416A-42AF-81A3-E99D1F4CF6EF_1_201_a.jpg

    Tested in 4runner assemblies for high beam, Osram/Sylvania left vs Toshiba right
    4E4F58AA-5E4D-4F45-AF6D-121AFE348978.jpg

    Toshiba 9011 vs Osram/Sylvania Korea 9011 in a T4R high beam
    2034E2B5-DBAE-4513-ACED-1D4A16432B17.jpg

    The new Korean Osrams come in about 7.7% higher in output intensity against what has been the long time bar to which all other 9011s are compared. What that may not seem huge, the Toshibas have been discontinued for some time and are becoming harder to locate. Currently the best bet is to be purchased under GM's AcDelco brand, but even there they have been replaced by a lower cost traditional Volsa 9011 model without the IR coating. Having a new HIR production bulb readily available that is even higher performing than the Toshibas is a very exciting development.

    For perspective on the upgrade from a stock 9005, the Osram Korean HIRs offer a 36% increase in output intensity compared to the stock 9005s. This would be really interesting to compare to the T4R OEM LED high beams, as the stock 9005 halogen high beams are on par with the Tacoma LED high beams, placing the HIRs far ahead of the OEM high beams on the Tacoma. I don't have the data for the T4R OEM LED highs. Thought interestingly there are 2 T4R LED headlights, one with LED highs and the other with halogen highs.
    BD2E54F4-B8AE-4B8D-877D-66926F0A6052.jpg

    While the Toshibas pull 5.37A (74.1w) the Osram Korean bulbs pull more at 5.45A (75.2w)
    DFFB3B7B-BAAB-4F73-BC93-DE84A64B59E5.jpg

    Here is where things get very interesting. HIR bulbs that use an IR coating filter and reflect IR wavelengths back to the filament to drive higher output. IR is 700nm-1mm wavelength. Check out the spectrum comparison between the bulbs below.
    E17B3EFC-0850-46B5-B7D1-8BB9A7A9BE29.jpg

    The Toshibas have the typical drop in high wavelength light typical of an IR filter/reflective coating product, as that energy wavelength is filtered and reflected back to the filament. Visible light for humans is between 380-700nm. This spectrum profile would suggest that the new Korean Osrams are not a true HIR, except there is a visible iridescent coating on the bulb which is the tell-tale sign of an IR reflective coating. My spectrometer only goes to 780nm, but it is possible that the new Osrams have been designed to use an even higher frequency IR reflection, somewhere between 780nm-1mm, which is beyond what my tools can detect. Interesting to look at the data, but I don't have a conclusive answer here.

    Note that the new high performance Sylvania/Osram 9011s are made in Korea. Sylvania/Osram also have 9011 bulbs made in Germany. While I have not personally tested the older German units, my understanding is that the new Korean HIR units are far higher performing. If ordering bulbs online, your could get either. Even going to an auto parts store, they may have either. You need to inspect the bulb inside the Sylvania package and see that it says Osram HIR1, made in Korea, to ensure you are getting the right bulb.

    D0CFCAC5-CC61-47D3-B209-9EF472D0E9FF.jpg

    These new HIR bulbs are not inexpensive, but nothing will perform better. The new Korean Sylvania/Osrams run about $30/bulb, which is roughly on par with the AcDelco Toshibas, without having to rely on a GM supply line of a discontinued product. For a 9011/HIR1, these Korean Osrams now replace the legendary Toshibas as the recommended bulb of choice.

    Special thanks to @klavender1 who went out of his way in search for this very specific Korean made bulb in his local area and once found it sent it my way. I tried most the local auto prats stores in my area and they all had the German Osram 9011s, if any at all. No local stores had the new Korean Osram bulbs. It is people that are willing to independently help and contribute that make this community an awesome one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  18. Oct 8, 2021 at 12:23 AM
    #5238
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

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    Does bulb shape play any role? The Toshiba’s look is so distinctive.
     
  19. Oct 8, 2021 at 12:38 AM
    #5239
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The earlier bulbs seemed to favor a domed bowl around the filament. Here is one of the first HIRs by GE I used to have. Note the domed globe around the filament. I'd speculate this was to optimally reflect the IR back directly at the filament, which may not occur from all angles with a parallel reflective surface in a standard style bulb. However the data shows the new Korean Osram design performance is superior.

    F6CCC8E8-75DB-4959-A8AF-4E1C9AC6D0A5_1_201_a.jpg 2DD5F77C-BA58-4F9C-B991-183AB6983AA2_1_201_a.jpg
     
  20. Oct 8, 2021 at 3:56 AM
    #5240
    klavender1

    klavender1 Well-Known Member

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    Happy to contribute! Also happy it wasn't for naught. It seems these are some amazing bulbs!
     

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