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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Apr 10, 2019 at 3:11 PM
    #981
    frenchee

    frenchee Well-Known Member

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    I just bought these and will be installing tonight.
    My headlights have always sucked. One has started to die out and I have to bang on it for it to work. Since I don't DD this and I live in the city, I don't see the need to spend $$$$$ on headlights.
    I see well enough without the need to blind everyone else. When it's truly dark, I'm out on a trail and I have a light bar for that. Keeping the head lights stock-ish.

    The pack was like $14-15. Cheaper than going to auto store.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Apr 10, 2019 at 3:14 PM
    #982
    siznarf

    siznarf Everyone my age is older than me...

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    really Francois?
     
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  3. Apr 10, 2019 at 3:14 PM
    #983
    rlx02

    rlx02 IG: nwxrl

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    stuff
    Yeah, keep political shit off of technical threads.
     
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  4. Apr 10, 2019 at 3:14 PM
    #984
    siznarf

    siznarf Everyone my age is older than me...

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    which threaD?
     
  5. Apr 10, 2019 at 3:18 PM
    #985
    frenchee

    frenchee Well-Known Member

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    I don't like the banning and locking of threads but I get the reason.
     
  6. Apr 10, 2019 at 3:19 PM
    #986
    frenchee

    frenchee Well-Known Member

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    And I just realized this is a third gen thread. My bad! Somehow ended up in here.
    Ignore my light bulb post. My lights are probably candle lights compared to stock 3rd gen.
     
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  7. Apr 10, 2019 at 3:34 PM
    #987
    frenchee

    frenchee Well-Known Member

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    I'd say mine look like the hand lit lights from the 1940's.
     
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  8. Apr 10, 2019 at 3:46 PM
    #988
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    FYI The Philips Xtreme Vision +100's are really nice in the 2nd gen reflectors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    frenchee and crashnburn80 [OP] like this.
  9. Apr 10, 2019 at 3:59 PM
    #989
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Gratefully very much appreciated. I'll PM you. :)

    The 1st/2nd Gen thread (H4 bulbs) is over here:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-ultimate-headlight-upgrade-h4-not-led-or-hid.398066/

    Unfortunately the best bulbs in that thread have been discontinued, there are suggested replacements but not to the level of scientific approach taken in this thread and the fog light thread. I've been busy hoarding H4 bulbs for a while and will have a better science backed update on that thread soon. If you go to the last page in the thread you can see the issue I am trying to solve with rack mounting the reflector light assemblies, which are not as easy as the 3rd Gens headlights.
     
  10. Apr 10, 2019 at 4:09 PM
    #990
    siznarf

    siznarf Everyone my age is older than me...

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    you know you undercover want a turd
     
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  11. Apr 10, 2019 at 5:43 PM
    #991
    frenchee

    frenchee Well-Known Member

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    Lol caught !!
     
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  12. Apr 10, 2019 at 6:49 PM
    #992
    BortisYeltzen

    BortisYeltzen Well-Known Member

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    Bilstein TRD Pro lift, ECGS bushing, Heated Clazzio's, ARE V-Series shell, RokBlokz flaps, more to come
    I ordered 6 of the Philips from the Amazon link. All 6 are German. I’ve went a bit overboard due to this thread. I have GE +130’s in my LB now and one set of spares. I plan to move the GE’s to the Fogs and then run the Philips H9’s in both HB and LB, I have 8 of these which includes the factory HB set. I also have 2 sets of the Hella H9’s. Luckily I plan to keep this truck for a decade or so...

    Anyone want any of these make me an offer in a PM and I’m happy to part with a set of the Hella H9’s and a set of the German Philips H9’s.

    DFC22DE1-6D2C-4335-9AF8-6E54878C5B2F.jpg
    390EF494-7541-465F-B62E-727ABC83176F.jpg
     
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  13. Apr 10, 2019 at 8:45 PM
    #993
    frenchee

    frenchee Well-Known Member

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    Thanks man. You have some crazy info on bulbs here. Sounds like if you want more brightness you need more power (watts).
    The higher wattage bulbs die faster. Also seems like you need to alter the harness. I really appreciate the thoroughness on the bulbs. Completely insane haha.

    I think it’s incredible the light you get in some of those pictures you posted. Really cool.

    I just installed those Phillips. No surprise. Pretty much stock (terrible little candles ). Don’t really wanna get into the whole
    Bulb thing. I won’t lie. I would love brighter lights around town but this is enough where I don’t feel in danger driving and the effort to get more light seems to great for me lol! Think I’ll install some LED ditch lights and in combo with my light bar more than enough for when I’m off pavement. Usually when I’m on the road to a trail that’s the shitty part cus still on paved road and less visibility. But it tend to do okay with using the high beams appropriately. Maybe I’ll change my mind in future.
     
  14. Apr 10, 2019 at 8:54 PM
    #994
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    More power in watts, higher voltage via harness (or upcoming voltage booster), and higher efficiency with +xxx bulbs is how it is done. All available in that 2nd Gen thread if using an All Season bulb. One of the other things to note, the larger the reflector surface, the more efficient and performant the projection. 2nd Gens have the largest reflectors by far. I'll do a more thorough review of the H4s in the 2nd Gen thread, but my money for somewhat stock power requiring just a bulb replacement would be on the Osram All Season Super +30 (75/70w) H4, or the GE Megalight/Xenon +120 H4. I expect either would drastically outperform the Philips +100s. I'll have more concrete data soon though.
     
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  15. Apr 11, 2019 at 7:23 AM
    #995
    WiscoPat

    WiscoPat One does not simply purchase a Ridgeline

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  16. Apr 11, 2019 at 7:48 AM
    #996
    HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Well-Known Member

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    Definitely marketing hype. I know they post videos about their products but they don't go into the detail that crashburn80 provides.
     
  17. Apr 11, 2019 at 10:51 AM
    #997
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    Unless they’ve figured out how to make a flat LED behave like a halogen’s omni-directional light source (coiled wire), it’s probably not going to be better than a halogen in a halogen housing.
     
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  18. Apr 11, 2019 at 11:11 AM
    #998
    replica9000

    replica9000 ./$0|./$0&

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    Bulbs like this have LED filaments that radiate light up to about 300°. Maybe it won't be long before a LED filament can be made smaller and brighter for automotive bulbs.
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Apr 11, 2019 at 11:13 AM
    #999
    kakwvu

    kakwvu Almost Heaven

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    This thread should auto default to Page 1 every time. I can’t quit laughing at all the ‘which X LED is better than Y bulb’ posts :rofl:

    I need a set of retros.
     
  20. Apr 11, 2019 at 11:29 AM
    #1000
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Recall as covered in the OP, the key to building a better LED is to make it the chipset cross section as as thin as possible, you'd also want to minimize obstruction of the LEDs with bulky designs above or below the chipset to attempt to best replicate a halogen filament. Their design looks better than many and they seem to do more due diligence than most. You'll notice even in their own photometric measurements that their LEDs cause increased foreground light, where as a bulb like the GE +120 or +130 will only increase the distance illumination.

    Also note that I'm pretty sure Ford uses Long Life (LL) bulbs for headlights, which are lower performing than the Standard bulbs Toyota uses. The last couple Fords I've changed out the headlights on have been LLs. LL bulbs are literally the lowest performing bulb available, but last seemingly forever which is why Ford uses them. I pulled some out of a friends Ford that were 8 years old and still going strong, to upgrade him to the Volsa +120s that I had purchased for testing in this thread (I had already given away my 2nd set of the GE +130s). Also keep in mind halogens dim over time. So if you were running tests against a 4 year old stock long life bulb in a Ford assembly (as in 2015 stock Ford F150 noted in the test) and comparing it to an LED, the tests would not be inaccurate, but they are certainly slanted to favor the LED. I cannot say if they replaced the bulb with a new standard bulb for the test, but it would seem unlikely if your goal is to sell the other product you are testing against. It also doesn't list what voltage was used for their tests. If the tests were run at battery voltage of 12.6v instead of alternator voltage, which I measured on my truck as 14.1-14.2v at idle, the halogen output and distance projection would be significantly reduced.

    Using the lower 14.1v measurement and doing a little math:

    (14.1/12.6)^3.4 = 1.465

    In other words, the halogen will be 46.5% brighter at alternator voltage than it would be at battery voltage whereas the difference does not affect LED output. Running the test at battery voltage isn't inaccurate per say, but it also isn't representative of what you'd experience driving.

    Top down photometrics are useful but also do not capture beam quality very well, for example some extended low level distance illumination could be measured glare. And depending on how the measurement is made may not capture beam saturation very well, it doesn't show hot spot quality and it also doesn't show glare (which isn't an issue in 3rd Gen projectors).

    Lots of variables.

    Also note on the site it says "Street Legal Output" and "We like to call it street legal". No it is not. No drop in LEDs are street legal. All LED manufactures would certainly like to call their drop in LED headlights street legal, but the only ones for a Tacoma thus far that can do so are the upcoming Morimotos replacement headlight assemblies and the upcoming 2020 Tacoma OEM LED headlights.

    Funny you mention that, I've long thought the same thing. You'd have to boost intensity while shrinking the LED 'filaments' which would lead to some technical challenges but if it could be achieved it would produce a much more similar light to incandescent than the bi-directional LED.
     

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