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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. May 12, 2019 at 1:32 AM
    #1141
    Deucer01

    Deucer01 Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome but kudos to crashnburn80 for sharing his knowledge and all the data he's collected on these lights. I went with the KC G4 500, ordered from Summit Racing Wednesday and received yesterday. :bananadance:
     
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  2. May 12, 2019 at 7:21 AM
    #1142
    abidar

    abidar Active Member

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    @crashnburn80 thanks again! Ordered new low and high beams today and avoided an LED train wreck.
     
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  3. May 12, 2019 at 9:13 AM
    #1143
    LegendaryAcura88

    LegendaryAcura88 Active Member

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    Alright, it took me a day and a half to read through this entire thread periodically when I had some spare time. I just have a couple of questions.

    A few people have mentioned that doing an adapter to H9 bulbs in the low beams sometimes leaves the bulb not properly clocked and at an angle. However, this shouldn't effect the beam pattern at all, right? Does it cause any interference or difficulty plugging them into the harness? I'm just trying to figure out if trimming the metal piece on the bulbs is necessary and, if so, where exactly do you make the cut?

    Also, not to beat a dead horse, but is there a possibility of a manufacturer producing an LED headlight bulb like some of the fog light bulbs that are available, where there are sets of LEDs all around a central shaft, instead of just two sets on opposing sides of a blade? Just thinking out loud with that one...

    Lastly, amazing work you've done here crash, I am thoroughly impressed at the time and money you've spent just to help fellow Tacoma owners make an informed decision!
     
  4. May 12, 2019 at 10:53 AM
    #1144
    Tacosrus

    Tacosrus ipso facto

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    I have the H9 wire harness adapters. You just cut a little notch for the bulb. Snaps in perfectly . Bulb is clocked correctly.
     
  5. May 12, 2019 at 10:55 AM
    #1145
    Tacosrus

    Tacosrus ipso facto

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  6. May 12, 2019 at 11:06 AM
    #1146
    LegendaryAcura88

    LegendaryAcura88 Active Member

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    Thank you for response. Unfortunately, my question may not have been worded properly. I understand the required trimming for the harness, I was more concerned with the fit of the H9 bulb in the headlight assembly. It was briefly addressed in posts 1024-1026 of this thread, just wanted clarification if any trimming of the metal tabs on the collar was required with the Phillips H9...
     
  7. May 12, 2019 at 11:42 AM
    #1147
    Tacosrus

    Tacosrus ipso facto

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    I have done several conversions and have not trimmed the tabs on the Hellas I have used
     
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  8. May 12, 2019 at 12:50 PM
    #1148
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    No trimming of the collar is required on the Philips or Hella H9s. It is a tight fit and may take a minute figuring out how to align the bulb, but they will fit. Xencn bulbs (not recommended) required the collar trimming.

    Those ‘fog’ LEDs you refer to with many LEDs around a shaft are the worst type. They produce crazy glare and the worst projection losses because the light source is so far off where it is designed to be that all the geometry is completely wrong. In order for a light source to work correctly in a halogen housing, the LEDs need to be the same size and position as a halogen filament. In the blade style design, this also means the distance between the opposing faces of the LEDs needs to be no wider than a halogen filament, and therein lies the challenge. That is a really small cross section, which needs smaller LEDs and leaves little to nothing to mount to. But even then, the LEDs do not produce uniform omni-directional light like the housing is designed for, so you end up with this:

    AACBCEE0-BB54-486F-A223-E1EACCEF79C2.jpg

    Large dark spots in the light assembly above and below the bulb, because LEDs are directional and are pointing to the sides. This makes the pattern not as saturated and causes irregular dark spots in the pattern, and not projecting as well.

    Here is an article by Philips that covers how making light sources smaller works, while the article covers it for halogen bulbs, the same is true for LEDs in a halogen housing, because this is how a halogen housing is designed to work.
    https://www.philips.co.uk/p-m-au/au...e-articles/article/improve-your-lights-easily

    Which is also why LEDs do so much better when they are in a housing specifically designed for the LED light source, as then the LED size issue, the cross section issue, dark spots, irregular beam and projection issues are all eliminated, because the reflector optics are all configured with the correct geometry for the LEDs.

    Residential LED lighting has started to use LED fiber optics to recreate omni-directional light. Output intensity likely isn’t there for a headlight, but I think it would be more ideal to try and advance that technology for automotive use than the current blade designs most manufactures are utilizing for drop in headlight replacements.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  9. May 13, 2019 at 9:14 AM
    #1149
    IPNPULZ

    IPNPULZ Well-Known Member

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    Somewhere in time.....
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    Crash would you have some input on this set up for a 19 T4R?

    Do you think they all will match or be very close in color temp?
    Do you think the LED fogs will over power the Headlights?

    1) Philips X-tremeUltinon LED fog lights.
    2) OSRAM Night Breaker Laser (Next Generation) H11 maybe even GE +130 for these
    3) OSRAM Night Breaker Laser (Next Generation) HB3
     
  10. May 13, 2019 at 1:43 PM
    #1150
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    LEDs and halogens are not going to match in color temp. Good LEDs will only come down to about 5000k for color temp, and the whitest real performance halogens (the Nightbreakers) only go up to about 3700k, leaving a pretty big color temp gap. You are going to have to decide whether you want your lights to color match and use halogen fogs, or use LED fogs and LEDs headlights causing loss of headlight projection (that would seem like a silly choice to chose cosmetics over function for headlights), or whether you want the best performing light setup and disregard color.

    1) I would not recommend the Philips LEDs in the OEM fogs. While I haven't the newest generation of those, LEDs in reflector housings cause glare. And the OEM fogs already produce some glare, so it is really compounding the glare issue making it much worse. Instead, if looking at inexpensive options, check out Toyota's new OEM LED fogs. Since these are in a housing designed for LEDs they have sharp cut offs, and much better output than your OEM H16 fogs, see post #733 here. The cost is also very similar:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...fog-light-review.554813/page-37#post-20419703

    For best fog performance I would recommend the KC G4 500 led fog, they are the highest performing plug and play fog with the best color temp (5000k) and largest area pattern coverage. They quiet a bit more expensive than the OEM Toyota LEDs though. You can see their comparison in the OP of that thread:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/

    You could also consider using a product like laminex to knock down the color temp of the LED fogs to make them more yellow.

    2) The T4R has odd side-entry headlights, this is very non-standard for headlights. Because of this the glare cap on the H11 bulb is blocking light from a portion of the internal reflector surface area, where as on a rear entry light the glare cap does not. The blue tint on the +130 bulbs would also only be on the inside part of the light, not uniform like the rear entry lights. On the TR4 for best performance I would use the Philips H9 to remove the obstruction of the glare cap and all tint from the bulb to get a more uniform and improved output. However, if going with a high efficiency H11 the Nightbreakers will provide a more uniform blue coating for side entry use than the GEs. The non-uniform light coating may not be noticeable in person, but I prefer things to be uniform.

    3) I don't see much point in color matching the high beam, as nobody is going to be able to tell when the high beams are on that they match your other lights, as no one should be in front of the vehicle and if they are they will be blinded anyway. But the Nightbreaker 9005/HB3 would certainly work. For best high beam performance, I would swap out the 9005/HB3 for a 9011 HIR1. These are a little whiter than stock bulbs, but significantly brighter. They will take output from ~1700 lumens to 2350+ lumens and are stock wattage. The top outer plastic collar does need to be trimmed with a Dremel or other small cutting tool to lock it into place in the 9005 socket. You can see how to trim the tab here: https://store.candlepower.com/mohirbuba.html
     
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  11. May 13, 2019 at 4:58 PM
    #1151
    r1200gs4ok

    r1200gs4ok Well-Known Member

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    Hey Crash......I have had the GE 130+ (fogs) for several months now and they are great.....if i had to complain, it would be that the light is somewhat “yellow”.......i have HIDs in low beams with a nice white look.......What can I get for fogs as a plug n play with whiter light?

    thanks

    OKU
     
  12. May 13, 2019 at 5:06 PM
    #1152
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Checkout my LED fog recommendations above.

    Toyota's new OEM LED fogs are 6200k. Since these are in a housing designed for LEDs they have nice sharp cut offs, see post #733 below, the cost is very reasonable at about $120 for the black out set.
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...fog-light-review.554813/page-37#post-20419703

    For best fog performance I would recommend the KC G4 500 led fog, they are the highest performing plug and play fog with the best color temp (5000k) and largest area pattern coverage. These will provide about 2x the pattern area as the Toyota LED fogs. They quiet a bit more expensive than the OEM Toyota LEDs though. You can see how they stack up to the rest of the LED fogs in this thread:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/

    The GE +130s for comparison are about 3500k in color, so both the above options are much whiter.
     
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  13. May 13, 2019 at 5:50 PM
    #1153
    TiHo

    TiHo Well-Known Member

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    I can vouch for the KC G4’s. They are awesome!
     
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  14. May 13, 2019 at 7:43 PM
    #1154
    r1200gs4ok

    r1200gs4ok Well-Known Member

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    is there instructions for the OEM Toyota LED fogs or video
     
  15. May 13, 2019 at 7:47 PM
    #1155
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    They are plug and play stock replacement. Same mounting design, same connector. Undo the apparently single screw on the back outer side, and remove. Morimoto and KC and stock use the same design, so videos on changing the assemblies on any of those will be the same.
     
  16. May 13, 2019 at 7:48 PM
    #1156
    r1200gs4ok

    r1200gs4ok Well-Known Member

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    thank you
     
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  17. May 14, 2019 at 4:25 AM
    #1157
    Deucer01

    Deucer01 Well-Known Member

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    Here's a youtube video on how to install the Morimotos but as Crash said, KCs and OEMs would be the same.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiHVLDOiiW4
     
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  18. May 14, 2019 at 5:04 AM
    #1158
    IPNPULZ

    IPNPULZ Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Again for the input I will be looking more into these options you posted....
     
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  19. May 14, 2019 at 7:13 AM
    #1159
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    I'm running the GE 130 low beam, GE 120 high beam, and Philips Ultinon fogs with yellow laminX (so no color match issue).

    This is in my T4R. Completely happy with my set up. I don't use the fogs in traffic, but I've had my buddies drive toward me to test for glare and no problems. They're crazy bright.
     
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  20. May 14, 2019 at 11:05 AM
    #1160
    mrCanoehead

    mrCanoehead Well-Known Member

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    I think there may be a stop molded into the headlight's threaded bulb receiver, that prevents rotation of an H9 bulb into an orientation where the electrical connector is facing straight down. In other words, the tab at the top is preventing full rotation, and may need to be trimmed. At least, that's what it seems like on my 2018. That is about as much force as I wanted to put on the bulb, I thought I was risking damage if I hulked it any more. Maybe I need to rotate in a clockwise direction instead of counterclockwise? The camera is roughly vertical.

    If the filament is coincident (not offset) with the longitudinal central axis of the bulb, rotation of the filament should make no difference. But I question whether my insertion depth is correct, which may rob me of the best optical performance.

    7DD4DA58-9A33-404A-9F76-115ACD429F69.jpg
     
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