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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Aug 22, 2019 at 10:02 PM
    #1421
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    It is effectively a focus rating, it is objective. You can read more about the rating and how it works on Philip’s site below. If all else was equal it would be very easy. However, as usual, it gets a little more grey when manufactures start placing performance robbing blue coatings on the bulb, and some high efficiency bulbs run at higher wattage than others for even higher output. And not all headlight assemblies respond to the same level with the increased efficiency bulbs. Some assemblies respond better than others.

    https://www.philips.co.uk/p-m-au/au...e-articles/article/improve-your-lights-easily

    I have heard of people removing coatings with a stripping agent and steel wool. However it will likely cause the bulb surface to be slightly scratched/non-uniform which will lead to uneven hearing and likely premature bulb failure.
     
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  2. Aug 25, 2019 at 10:25 AM
    #1422
    jvalky

    jvalky New Member

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    Lighting engineers consider one other factor; scotopic and photopic vision or pupil lumens. The human eye, during lower light conditions, perceives the colder temperatures (6000K) as much brighter than the warmer temperatures (3000K). In fact, at the same lumen intensity, the cold light will appear about almost twice as bright as the warm temperatures. This is why the LED headlights appear much brighter than the halogens even though they may have a lower lumen output.
     
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  3. Aug 26, 2019 at 4:35 AM
    #1423
    CrustyComa

    CrustyComa Well-Known Member

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    Crash, do you know the lifespan of the Xenon +120s?
     
  4. Aug 26, 2019 at 7:41 AM
    #1424
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    It is about 150 hours IIRC. I run 200 hr bulbs in my 2nd Gen which last almost exactly 1 year, so based on my use I’d expect 9 months out of the GEs, give or take. Not running them when not necessary (during the day) will help to get the most out of them.
     
  5. Aug 26, 2019 at 7:45 AM
    #1425
    6MTPro

    6MTPro Well-Known Member

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    Is there going to be significant light output drop off towards the end of bulbs useable life, or will it just die one day and need to be replaced if we don't do it prematurely?
     
  6. Aug 26, 2019 at 8:23 AM
    #1426
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Actually the bulbs are advertised to maintain their original output near the end of the life span better than standard bulbs. A normal bulb may dim 20% or more, and the GEs were advertised to be less than 10% if memory serves me correctly. I wouldn't replace them prematurely, but when bulbs go out they should always be replaced in pairs, so when one fails replace both headlights with new bulbs.
     
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  7. Aug 26, 2019 at 7:05 PM
    #1427
    Sandman TRD

    Sandman TRD Well-Known Member

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    Impressive post. Well done, sir!
     
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  8. Aug 31, 2019 at 6:24 PM
    #1428
    Openflash

    Openflash Member

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    This is a fantastic post. Thank you for your time and effort. It absolutely helps with understanding what to look for in a replacement buld!

    ~Anthony
     
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  9. Sep 7, 2019 at 12:56 PM
    #1429
    lpfe42

    lpfe42 Well-Known Member

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    Hey,Crash
    Can we run these with stock wiring? :fingerscrossed:
    https://www.amazon.com/OSRAM-BOOST-...11+75+watt&qid=1567885502&s=automotive&sr=1-1
     
  10. Sep 7, 2019 at 2:39 PM
    #1430
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    You probably can sure, but they’ll be a significant downgrade in light output thanks to the blue coating.
     
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  11. Sep 8, 2019 at 8:26 AM
    #1431
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Yep. Wattage wise they will work, however a 5000k blue coating is very dark for a halogen, so the output is going to be severely negatively affected. The blue coating is also going to make the bulb run extra hot internally, combined with the higher wattage is going to lead to very short bulb life. Not a product I would recommend for good output.
     
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  12. Sep 8, 2019 at 6:18 PM
    #1432
    lpfe42

    lpfe42 Well-Known Member

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    Crash, thanks for all the information I definitely appreciate that
     
  13. Sep 8, 2019 at 6:40 PM
    #1433
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    If you are really after whiter halogen light than the 3500-3600k GEs, I’d suggest the H9 Silverstars, noting that their performance will not match the GE H11s or Philips H9. But the ~4000k blue coating isn’t nearly as performance robbing as a 5000k coating, while offering increased power of an H9. Bulb life will also be shorter than a standard H9. Not a setup I would recommend for best performance, but it will be a more balanced approach for cosmetically whiter light with better performance than a 5000k halogen bulb.
     
  14. Sep 15, 2019 at 9:12 AM
    #1434
    replica9000

    replica9000 Just your average meatbag.

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    Ordered a set of the Philips H9 bulbs. Should have them tomorrow. Had to decline expert installation though.
     
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  15. Sep 16, 2019 at 1:45 PM
    #1435
    replica9000

    replica9000 Just your average meatbag.

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    And they're in! Gemacht in Deutschland :D
     
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  16. Sep 16, 2019 at 1:47 PM
    #1436
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Let us know what you think after taking it for a drive somewhere dark.
     
  17. Sep 17, 2019 at 8:05 AM
    #1437
    JagoTaco

    JagoTaco Well-Known Member

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    Updated lows and fogs per this thread:

    Philips H9s for lows. Packaging for both bulbs reads "Made in Germany". No issues fitting into bulb socket.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YMPN3A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Modified the H11 extension to avoid modifying H9 bulbs. Very simple, 30 seconds on each with a utility knife
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TXRWOPA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Toyota LED fogs in black bezel. Plug and play, easy install
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DBMT9NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    These H9s are similar color temp as OEM but much brighter. Like that we are deploying same bulbs as highs for a few reasons. Low beam vision is great without blinding other drivers. Understand lifespan is shortish (but sounds a bit better than the performance halogen H11s), and love that these are only $7 per bulb!

    Fogs with their black bezel look great and are very bright. These are truly fogs (NOT driving lights) with a wide but short beam height wise. Color is very white compared to lows but not a major issue to me. May do the Lamin-x thing with these for a different color and better vision in inclement weather.

    Overall super happy thank you so much @crashnburn80 !
     
  18. Sep 17, 2019 at 6:38 PM
    #1438
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Glad you like the setup! For others curious on the Toyota fogs, you can see my review here: Toyota LED fogs. Edit see post #733.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
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  19. Sep 19, 2019 at 11:30 PM
    #1439
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Sylvania Zevo H11 Headlights

    vQ0nJKxCTRCv7ig76M45jA.jpg

    Sylvania is a major name brand manufacture in automotive lighting, who's parent company is Osram which is Toyota's OEM supplier. So how do Sylvania's drop in LEDs stack up in performance? You expect a company of this caliber to have done their homework. The Sylvania LEDs lock into place in a fixed position, as any proper LED should, just like a halogen bulb. None of this 'adjustable' nonsense. They are actively cooled with a fan that blows upward through an extended heat sink.

    Measuring their cross section (important for focus)

    fullsizeoutput_1164.jpg

    The LED cross section, or distance between emitter faces, is the best I have seen yet for an H11 bulb. Beating out Diode Dynamics at 2.95mm (Sylvania) vs 3.03mm (DD). Smaller distance between emitters equates to greater focus (if the emitters are otherwise properly placed) and greater focus helps concentrate light for greater projected output. However both Sylvania and DD are still far too large at over double that of a halogen filament.

    [​IMG]

    The Sylvania box had conflicting specs on power consumption. The cover said the bulbs are 17w, whereas the side of the package claimed 14w. After ~25min of run time, the bulbs stable consumption was 16.8w as measured by the power supply readings below.

    pWWEp8pkT6aXA%+B1mZyBg.jpg

    Evaluating performance
    Similar to the Diode Dynamics product, the light intensity is appropriately placed up near the cut off in the beam pattern, but lacks the focus of a true hot spot compared to the halogen counterpart. However these are probably the best focused LEDs I've seen yet, which goes back to having the smallest cross section.

    Pattern Testing at 18'
    Sylvania lux 738 vs Stock lux 623 (used bulb)
    y3ySntPDQC63zKRRok7udg.jpg

    Comparing to the stock wattage GE +130
    Sylvania lux 738 lux vs GE +130 lux 1086
    l53UfO6MQVKKtbfER%Z7IQ.jpg

    Note that the LED causes a loss in the projector uplight for illuminating street signs, clearly visible in the halogen output in both photos and hardly present for the LED. While the Sylvania LED is just slightly smaller which should give a minor advantage in focus over the DD LED, the DD LED is higher power at ~20w vs the Sylvania at ~17w. At 18' the performance between the two seems very comparable, with Diode Dynamics just edging out Sylvania. However both fall far short of matching the output of a stock wattage performance halogen.

    fullsizeoutput_1165.jpg fullsizeoutput_1166.jpg

    Sylvania advertises 6000k, but my measurements were a bit under low-mid 5600k.

    Distance testing at 42'
    Sylvania lux 133 vs stock lux 144
    QH5+tkPBQ0Wdx4hb53s1cw.jpg

    fullsizeoutput_116c.jpg

    At 42' the Sylvania Zevo H11 LEDs fall just short of stock halogen performance lux numbers when used in a Tacoma 3rd Gen Projector headlight.

    The Sylvania LEDs did return just slightly higher numbers at distance than the Diode Dynamics LEDs, despite being lower power (133 Sylvania vs 128 DD). The Sylvania LEDs are .08mm smaller in cross section than the DD LEDs, which helps drive improved focus/better projection. However the DD LEDs are ~3w higher in power likely leading to higher raw output. The performance differences between the two are quite small, to the point I'd call it a wash. Sylvania technically has a better executed design, but Diode Dynamics makes up for it with a little extra lighting power to the point that the two are relatively equivalent when run in a 3rd Gen Projector.

    Notes:
    1) All measurements in these tests were taken with a full spectrum NIST traceable digital spectrometer.
    2) Tests were run at 13.8v, which is the measured voltage at the headlight connector with the truck running.
    3) The stock bulb used is an OEM H11 Osram standard bulb removed from a stock Tacoma.
    4) While GE +130s were used in the comparison data for easy reference to the original post, the GE Xenon +120 bulbs are a higher performing stock wattage bulb than the GE +130s.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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  20. Sep 19, 2019 at 11:39 PM
    #1440
    El Duderino

    El Duderino Obviously, you're not a golfer.

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    Stuff, things, this, an ADS
    Another one bites the dust
     
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