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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Sep 8, 2019 at 6:40 PM
    #1461
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    If you are really after whiter halogen light than the 3500-3600k GEs, I’d suggest the H9 Silverstars, noting that their performance will not match the GE H11s or Philips H9. But the ~4000k blue coating isn’t nearly as performance robbing as a 5000k coating, while offering increased power of an H9. Bulb life will also be shorter than a standard H9. Not a setup I would recommend for best performance, but it will be a more balanced approach for cosmetically whiter light with better performance than a 5000k halogen bulb.
     
  2. Sep 15, 2019 at 9:12 AM
    #1462
    replica9000

    replica9000 ./$0|./$0&

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    Ordered a set of the Philips H9 bulbs. Should have them tomorrow. Had to decline expert installation though.
     
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  3. Sep 16, 2019 at 1:45 PM
    #1463
    replica9000

    replica9000 ./$0|./$0&

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    And they're in! Gemacht in Deutschland :D
     
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  4. Sep 16, 2019 at 1:47 PM
    #1464
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Let us know what you think after taking it for a drive somewhere dark.
     
  5. Sep 17, 2019 at 8:05 AM
    #1465
    JagoTaco

    JagoTaco Well-Known Member

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    Updated lows and fogs per this thread:

    Philips H9s for lows. Packaging for both bulbs reads "Made in Germany". No issues fitting into bulb socket.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YMPN3A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Modified the H11 extension to avoid modifying H9 bulbs. Very simple, 30 seconds on each with a utility knife
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TXRWOPA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Toyota LED fogs in black bezel. Plug and play, easy install
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DBMT9NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    These H9s are similar color temp as OEM but much brighter. Like that we are deploying same bulbs as highs for a few reasons. Low beam vision is great without blinding other drivers. Understand lifespan is shortish (but sounds a bit better than the performance halogen H11s), and love that these are only $7 per bulb!

    Fogs with their black bezel look great and are very bright. These are truly fogs (NOT driving lights) with a wide but short beam height wise. Color is very white compared to lows but not a major issue to me. May do the Lamin-x thing with these for a different color and better vision in inclement weather.

    Overall super happy thank you so much @crashnburn80 !
     
  6. Sep 17, 2019 at 6:38 PM
    #1466
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Glad you like the setup! For others curious on the Toyota fogs, you can see my review here: Toyota LED fogs. Edit see post #733.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
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  7. Sep 19, 2019 at 11:30 PM
    #1467
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Sylvania Zevo H11 Headlights

    vQ0nJKxCTRCv7ig76M45jA.jpg

    Sylvania is a major name brand manufacture in automotive lighting, who's parent company is Osram which is Toyota's OEM supplier. So how do Sylvania's drop in LEDs stack up in performance? You expect a company of this caliber to have done their homework. The Sylvania LEDs lock into place in a fixed position, as any proper LED should, just like a halogen bulb. None of this 'adjustable' nonsense. They are actively cooled with a fan that blows upward through an extended heat sink.

    Measuring their cross section (important for focus)

    fullsizeoutput_1164.jpg

    The LED cross section, or distance between emitter faces, is the best I have seen yet for an H11 bulb. Beating out Diode Dynamics at 2.95mm (Sylvania) vs 3.03mm (DD). Smaller distance between emitters equates to greater focus (if the emitters are otherwise properly placed) and greater focus helps concentrate light for greater projected output. However both Sylvania and DD are still far too large at over double that of a halogen filament.

    [​IMG]

    The Sylvania box had conflicting specs on power consumption. The cover said the bulbs are 17w, whereas the side of the package claimed 14w. After ~25min of run time, the bulbs stable consumption was 16.8w as measured by the power supply readings below.

    pWWEp8pkT6aXA%+B1mZyBg.jpg

    Evaluating performance
    Similar to the Diode Dynamics product, the light intensity is appropriately placed up near the cut off in the beam pattern, but lacks the focus of a true hot spot compared to the halogen counterpart. However these are probably the best focused LEDs I've seen yet, which goes back to having the smallest cross section.

    Pattern Testing at 18'
    Sylvania lux 738 vs Stock lux 623 (used bulb)
    y3ySntPDQC63zKRRok7udg.jpg

    Comparing to the stock wattage GE +130
    Sylvania lux 738 lux vs GE +130 lux 1086
    l53UfO6MQVKKtbfER%Z7IQ.jpg

    Note that the LED causes a loss in the projector uplight for illuminating street signs, clearly visible in the halogen output in both photos and hardly present for the LED. While the Sylvania LED is just slightly smaller which should give a minor advantage in focus over the DD LED, the DD LED is higher power at ~20w vs the Sylvania at ~17w. At 18' the performance between the two seems very comparable, with Diode Dynamics just edging out Sylvania. However both fall far short of matching the output of a stock wattage performance halogen.

    fullsizeoutput_1165.jpg fullsizeoutput_1166.jpg

    Sylvania advertises 6000k, but my measurements were a bit under low-mid 5600k.

    Distance testing at 42'
    Sylvania lux 133 vs stock lux 144
    QH5+tkPBQ0Wdx4hb53s1cw.jpg

    fullsizeoutput_116c.jpg

    At 42' the Sylvania Zevo H11 LEDs fall just short of stock halogen performance lux numbers when used in a Tacoma 3rd Gen Projector headlight.

    The Sylvania LEDs did return just slightly higher numbers at distance than the Diode Dynamics LEDs, despite being lower power (133 Sylvania vs 128 DD). The Sylvania LEDs are .08mm smaller in cross section than the DD LEDs, which helps drive improved focus/better projection. However the DD LEDs are ~3w higher in power likely leading to higher raw output. The performance differences between the two are quite small, to the point I'd call it a wash. Sylvania technically has a better executed design, but Diode Dynamics makes up for it with a little extra lighting power to the point that the two are relatively equivalent when run in a 3rd Gen Projector.

    Notes:
    1) All measurements in these tests were taken with a full spectrum NIST traceable digital spectrometer.
    2) Tests were run at 13.8v, which is the measured voltage at the headlight connector with the truck running.
    3) The stock bulb used is an OEM H11 Osram standard bulb removed from a stock Tacoma.
    4) While GE +130s were used in the comparison data for easy reference to the original post, the GE Xenon +120 bulbs are a higher performing stock wattage bulb than the GE +130s.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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  8. Sep 19, 2019 at 11:39 PM
    #1468
    El Duderino

    El Duderino Who the hell cares about MPGs, its a truck

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    Stuff, things, this, an ADS
    Another one bites the dust
     
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  9. Sep 20, 2019 at 9:31 AM
    #1469
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    I decided to do some tab trimming and toss the Phillips H9’s back in the truck since were getting darkness again. Why? I’ve posted before that I felt that the GE +130 bulbs were superior because I perceive that they gave crisp clean projection compared to the H9’s more “fuzzy” lights despite the H9’s measured higher output and on paper having the same filament orientation.

    With the top tab trimmed, the h9’s lock fully in place just like the stock h11 bulbs. With the tabs trimmed now those bulbs lock fully in place whereas before they were canted about 15°. I’m excited to see if it makes a difference as I suspect it will. Since I had the Dremel out anyway I also trimmed the connector tab so I didn’t have to use the wiring adapters. If they work out the way I suspect they will I’ll just order a second set of H9’s for $14 and have them trimmed and ready to go in the glove box. The GE’s will go in my wife’s CRV.
     
  10. Sep 20, 2019 at 10:36 AM
    #1470
    replica9000

    replica9000 ./$0|./$0&

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    This may be a silly question, but even though halogen bulbs emit light 360°, does the orientation of the base have any standard placement?

    Seems like many of the LED drop-ins claim performance is best when the LEDs are oriented in the 3 & 9 positions.
     
  11. Sep 20, 2019 at 12:53 PM
    #1471
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Yes, they should be at 3 & 9 to illuminate the housing properly for uniform light output, which is why it should be built into the design of the product and not something that is freehand adjustable like some manufactures like to promote. Note that in a low beam projector, anything below the 3 & 9 o’clock plane will be blocked by the projectors internal light shield, so that you will get significantly reduced output.
     
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  12. Sep 20, 2019 at 1:18 PM
    #1472
    replica9000

    replica9000 ./$0|./$0&

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    Ok, but if you install these in any vehicle, will the LEDs always be in the proper position? I thought many were adjustable to accommodate a wide variety of housings.
     
  13. Sep 20, 2019 at 2:02 PM
    #1473
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Yes, they will always be in the proper position. The halogen tab alignment is standardized and a properly designed LED will utilize the same standardized halogen tabs in the LED body (like a halogen bulb), thus making the orientation always correct. Optics are high precision, it is not something that should be free-hand adjusted. The 'adjustable' lights is just another example of garbage feed to you by LED companies that lack optics expertise.
     
  14. Sep 21, 2019 at 12:43 AM
    #1474
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    No rain out tonight. The above post covering Sylvania LEDs has been updated with distance projection test results. I've also copied the post to post #3 in the thread covering additional LED testing since the original post.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  15. Sep 22, 2019 at 10:02 AM
    #1475
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    You still have to trim the metal tab, correct?
     
  16. Sep 22, 2019 at 10:11 AM
    #1476
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to do the H11 to H9 mod today. Is there a big difference in the heat produced between the two bulbs?
     
  17. Sep 22, 2019 at 10:20 AM
    #1477
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    Ideally yes. They’ll fit but not lot all the way in place.

    Not enough to matter or melt anything.
     
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  18. Sep 22, 2019 at 11:20 AM
    #1478
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Metal tab trimming is not required with the Philips bulbs. They are a tighter fit, but they will fit without modification.

    Your looking at about an 30% increase in wattage, as the Philips bulbs actually run at the legal max of 74w, which is part of the reason why they perform so well. It is hotter as mentioned but not enough for concern.
     
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  19. Sep 22, 2019 at 11:23 AM
    #1479
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys! So, even with extended run times, heat shouldn't be an issue? I make frequent night time (low beam) trips where I'd be running them for about 6 hours at a stretch.
     
  20. Sep 22, 2019 at 11:27 AM
    #1480
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Wont be a problem. Keep in mind they are the exact same bulbs the stock high beams use.
     
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