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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Sep 30, 2019 at 5:18 PM
    #1541
    Charlyc

    Charlyc Well-Known Member

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  2. Sep 30, 2019 at 6:04 PM
    #1542
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Yep, per their product page:
    “High quality quartz glass with a specialized blue coating”

    http://www.myhellalights.com/index.php/products/bulbs/halogen/high-performance-2-bulbs/
     
  3. Oct 1, 2019 at 4:49 AM
    #1543
    Osteology

    Osteology Active Member

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    crashnburn80 - THANK YOU! I knew that the stock Tacoma headlights were reported to be poor before buying my new truck (and they were). I have an hour commute in the dark each morning and headlights are important to me. I also am blinded by mis-used, or mis-aimed, lights on a daily basis.

    I'm very happy to report that the Phillips H9 bulbs from Amazon (marked "made in Germany") and the Amazon pigtail adapter worked great. While not like the factory HIDs in my car, I'm quite happy with the results -especially with such a small investment, $20. Sufficient light, color temperature is fine, and a nice nice contained pattern. Links below for anyone else that wants to try without searching back through the thread.

    Again, thank you for your continued efforts to test and you detailed explanations!
    Cheers, Mark

    Phillips H9 bulbs: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YMPN3A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    H9 harness extension (see earlier posts for details on 5 minute modification needed): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TXRWOPA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
  4. Oct 1, 2019 at 5:45 AM
    #1544
    Tullie D

    Tullie D Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see another happy H9 user speak up ! :thumbsup:

    The adapter harness is optional. You can use it or just modify the bulbs. Easy either way.
     
    BT17 likes this.
  5. Oct 1, 2019 at 6:41 AM
    #1545
    Osteology

    Osteology Active Member

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    Agreed - I just wanted to be able to swap bulbs quickly (I'm lazy and forgetful, like to not have spares in the truck when I need them). I used a thin flat file to cut the groove in the adapter and was done in 2 minutes.
     
    Tullie D likes this.
  6. Oct 1, 2019 at 6:42 AM
    #1546
    cricoid

    cricoid Member

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    dumb question alert:

    I have a Xenon Depot HID kit that I had purchased for my (now gone) 2006 4Runner and never installed. Is it plug and play with my 2017 Tacoma? Looking at the instructions, it seems like everything hooks up about the same. I'm guessing I bought the kit about 5-6 years ago and just found the box while cleaning out my basement :)
     
  7. Oct 1, 2019 at 8:22 AM
    #1547
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Yes, both vehicles take H11 low beams. Note that some have had bounce issues with HIDs in the 3rd Gen low beam projector.
     
  8. Oct 1, 2019 at 11:12 AM
    #1548
    cricoid

    cricoid Member

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    I appreciate the info. I may give the kit a try one weekend.
     
    crashnburn80 [OP] likes this.
  9. Oct 1, 2019 at 1:06 PM
    #1549
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I've ordered the Hella H9 2.0s to include data for the thread and will update the thread this week with the data. I've also reordered the Hikari Ultra LEDs for better data for the thread since I did not do distance testing with them last time to evaluate their true performance. Spoiler alert: No, they do not come close to matching the projection performance of the GEs or Philips H9s.

    Of likely interest to this group, one of my next threads will be on adding aux driving lights (high beams) behind the grill and connecting them to operate like stock. First parts just arrived at my desk today.
     
  10. Oct 1, 2019 at 2:52 PM
    #1550
    JagoTaco

    JagoTaco Well-Known Member

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    Of likely interest to this group, one of my next threads will be on adding aux driving lights (high beams) behind the grill and connecting them to operate like stock. First parts just arrived at my desk today.[/QUOTE]

    Confirming interest in this!
     
  11. Oct 1, 2019 at 4:21 PM
    #1551
    replica9000

    replica9000 ./$0|./$0&

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    Trying these out at the moment. Obviously the coating means they won't compete with the Philips H9. I like the color though. Easy on the eyes.

    s-l300.jpg
     
  12. Oct 1, 2019 at 4:26 PM
    #1552
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    For low beam?
     
  13. Oct 1, 2019 at 4:30 PM
    #1553
    replica9000

    replica9000 ./$0|./$0&

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    Yeah. The yellow actually seems lighter than it did with my H10 fogs. Maybe due to the extra 20 watts. Maybe they don't adjust the coating to compensate for higher wattage :notsure:
     
  14. Oct 1, 2019 at 5:33 PM
    #1554
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I've got some diffraction coated H9s you are welcome to try if you like. Lunex provides a golden hue while Xencn is a lower color temp but also lower output. Diffraction uses a coating to diffract/bend the targeted light spectrum (blue light in this case) out of the main beam. In the Tacoma projector the majority of this blue light then appears to be blocked by the projectors internal light shield, leaving a lower color temp light for the beam. I wouldn't recommend either Brand brand per say, as they are not mainstream brands known for quality. But I have tested both these and they are higher output over stock.

    203DC386-E11A-452D-9055-A9F1BBA1501A.jpg 39E521E3-3920-4A98-BE92-D0778D03F743.jpg
     
    skierd likes this.
  15. Oct 2, 2019 at 4:20 AM
    #1555
    Charlyc

    Charlyc Well-Known Member

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    Yes interested!
     
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  16. Oct 2, 2019 at 8:23 AM
    #1556
    replica9000

    replica9000 ./$0|./$0&

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    I've heard of xencn before, but haven't tried them. Have you tested any Nokya bulls before? I'm not sure how their output compares to the bigger brands, but they seem to be good quality and have a pretty good lifespan.
     
  17. Oct 2, 2019 at 9:04 AM
    #1557
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Xencn is a China brand. I bought their diffraction 2500k H9 bulbs for my Tacoma Subaru fog H9 conversion, as they were the lowest color temp diffraction H9s I could find. I think they are a bit too low color temp for headlight use. I haven't tested Nokya, much of their halogen product line focuses on blue coated 'white' bulbs. They do offer some clear 'stage 2' higher wattage bulbs, including a 75w H11 which I've thought about testing. If you are looking for an 'All Season' bulb, the Lunex H9 I think is a better fit, they give more of a pleasant golden color that is easy on the eyes vs coated yellow . Lunex is an India brand that masquerades as a UK startup brand. Again, neither of these are high quality reputable brands. If you'd like to try them out I'll send them your way for the shipping cost.
     
    replica9000 likes this.
  18. Oct 2, 2019 at 9:13 AM
    #1558
    johnnyroid

    johnnyroid Well-Known Member

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    What would we do without crash's knowledge? Props to OP, dude, your work has really helped so many including myself. Thanks on behalf of the community for it all. /ass kissing complete/ :rofl:
     
  19. Oct 3, 2019 at 12:52 PM
    #1559
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    As a recent LED fanboy convert, I'm obligated to point out the fact that not all LEDs are created equal, and there are some good options out there. I'm not saying the best LED is better than the best Halogen or HID, but I don't think it's fair to group all LEDs together with the two tested here. All due respect to @crashnburn80 for putting in the work, but this isn't the only test that's been conducted with headlights. Some LEDs work better with projectors than others. Bulbfacts.com shows the XD LED as a pretty poor performer in projectors. I cant find the DD brand on there, but they look like the GTR or Philips bulbs, neither of which performed very well in projectors. I understand the concept behind the statements made in this comparison about how the light is emitted differently. While I can agree to an extent, you don't really know what is best in your application until you've tried it. This test, while certainly more extensive than any I've found pertaining specifically to the Taco, is very very limited in overall scope. Again, I'm not bashing or arguing the information provided by the OP, but I AM arguing some of the statements and assumptions people are making based on a sample size of TWO LEDs. Sure, LEDs work on a different principal, but that doesn't mean they don't work.

    Also, it seems to me like the main focus here is on low beams, which makes me wonder; why would I care if my low beams can light up a trash can three miles away? Isn't that what high beams are for? Personally, I prefer the more even spread of adequately bright light the LEDs in my Fusion provided over a mega bright spotlight for low beams. I'm not saying a drop in LED is the same as the $2000 unserviceable factory headlight assembly in my Fusion; just that I don't think "best" is based on hot spot lux alone.

    Anyway, in case @crashnburn80 (or anyone else for that matter) has a bunch of dollars he needs to rehome, and wants to be the end-all authority on Taco headlights; that site lists the Bosch Gigalight +120 as the best projector low beam/combo bulb, and the Flosser High Wattage for high beam reflectors. I'd also like to see how the Katana LED, Hikari Ultra, and Lumibright XT1 stack up as they're Bulbfacts' top projector performers in their price ranges. Maybe throw in the Supernova V.4, as that seems to be the crowd favorite for the Taco. Possibly pluck a few of the other top performers from the bulbfacts lists, since they use H7 bulbs for everything, and I assume H9/11 bulbs may have different results.

    As it stands, for low beams anyway, I'd rather have the significantly longer lasting LED, even if it isn't a spotlight (which I'd debate based on a lot of the other comparisons I've seen). Spending $50-100 one time seems more appealing than spending $20-50 every six months, especially if they perform just as well.

    This is a decent read.
    https://bulbfacts.com/news-articles/ultimate-headlight-and-foglight-upgrade-guide.html

    This is what it says about LEDs:
    "LED as we mentioned previously is a very new technology for vehicle headlights but has reached a point where we feel comfortable recommending them. Just be sure to check our LED Test Results Chart to ENSURE you pick up a kit with a good beam pattern. It’s critical to avoid glaring other drivers and causing problems on the road. We are very selective when recommending LEDs, as again, we only want you to run a kit that works well in both reflector and projector headlights. You can see how LED kit’s beam appears in our test reflector and projector housings, and while some work well in a reflector, others may work better in a projector. It’s best again to always check our chart and click on the beam pattern image for a closer view.

    The best LEDs are ones with the latest LED Chip technology like CSP (chip scale package, smaller application), such as Lumileds and CREE (at the time of this article). This is critical as these LEDs are very small, and very bright. This is achievable by mimicking the filament of the halogen bulb, essentially making the light glow brightest at the same exact place, down to the mm. Older models are larger, and don’t focus the light properly, making a big impact out on the road. You’ll see some new designs like the Hikari Ultra and Katana kits, that point light even further by scaling the module on one side smaller than the other.

    I want to bright up how certain designs take to Reflectors, and others Projectors. You’ll notice a trend on our charts if you look closely. The kits with a large covering or cap near the tip or top, work good in reflector style headlights, but because of the design of projectors, these same bulbs do very poorly as the light is cut-off too soon inside of the projector. The light is not fully utilized, and light is wasted."


    Oh, and holy shit. I just looked at the bulbfacts numbers for on the HID kits. The high beam output is INSANE!! I knew they were bright, but the kit from Morimoto is 17k+ lux compared to 5400 lux for the Gigalight halogen, and about 7k lux for the Lumibright. Granted, those aren't apple to apples tests, but that's more than two to three times as bright! That's nuts! If it weren't for the warm up time, I'd be tempted to run HIDs in my high beam buckets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
    Rockoma5 likes this.
  20. Oct 3, 2019 at 4:11 PM
    #1560
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    There is some good info in there, along with misleading information. Many drop in LEDs put out a ton more light than the stock halogen bulbs they replace, they are simply much brighter, but but they are also much larger than the halogen filaments they replace. A headlights optics are precision engineered to draw light from the specific size and location of the filament and focus it for down road distance projection. Changing the size of the light source, changes the focus, which changes the ability to project distance down road. Making light source larger reduces focus and projection, making them smaller enhances focus for improved projection. With the LEDs being much larger than halogen filaments (people always overlook width) the focus is reduced, which negatively affects projection performance. So while you may have a lot more light, without proper focus it will not project as far. This is easily concealed if you take measurements at short range like some LED companies, and like Bulbfacts which is using a very short 12' distance. If you look at charts where I've done multiple distance measurements, you will see how short range measurements make the LEDs look much better than they actually perform at distance. And my 'short range' test was 18' which is 50% further than Bulbfacts is using, meaning their lux measurements will even further downplay loss of focus/projection.

    Pretty sure the Bosch Gigalight +120 is just a rebranded GE +120, GE/Tungsram is the actual manufacture.

    Also keep in mind, that site is trying to sell you a product. They provide links for you to click to buy the product and when you do they get a kickback.

    I've actually tested far more LEDs than this thread contains. For the record, there are 3 drop in LEDs covered in detail, and the Morimoto replacement LED assembly. But what I don't have for those other LED tests is the long distance data, and without that data the results are severely misleading, which is why I haven't included them. I'm not interested in building a library of tests of every lighting product, there is a lot of garbage products on the bulbfacts site that you can tell won't work correctly just by looking at it. That is a lot of wasted time and effort put into obviously poorly designed products. I'm interested in finding the best performing lights possible for a given application and with where the technology is today, for assemblies designed for a halogen light source, a performance halogen does far better.

    I do agree the Hikaris are one of the best in a projector, as I mentioned a while back. I've tested them in the past and previously mentioned that I reordered them so that I could get the distance data I did not collect previously.
     

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