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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Nov 3, 2019 at 6:46 AM
    #1741
    replica9000

    replica9000 Just your average meatbag.

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    Should get these instead. They'd be a good conversation starter
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Nov 3, 2019 at 7:21 AM
    #1742
    Tullie D

    Tullie D Well-Known Member

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    I've got one of those. Don't have any carbide, but I have the lamp!
     
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  3. Nov 4, 2019 at 2:41 PM
    #1743
    MrMccrackin

    MrMccrackin Well-Known Member

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    you are aware Crash's testing was based on 2nd and 3rd gen Tacoma's right?

    i don't remember he saying about testing done on other platforms
     
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  4. Nov 4, 2019 at 6:20 PM
    #1744
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware of what his tests were based on.
    As far as the other testing that he mentioned...

    If you know what those tests are or where I can find them, I love being enlightened.
     
  5. Nov 5, 2019 at 4:18 AM
    #1745
    DOSS

    DOSS Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to all the data on here in the end I went with some LED's in my projectors and left halogens in the high beams.. really liking these as they have a crisp cutoff and even my wife who I passed going the other way said I didn't blind her :) https://www.amazon.com/SEALIGHT-Hea...?keywords=sealight+led&qid=1572956156&sr=8-24


    I also ordered a carbide lantern off of ebay so I have a backup light source in case these fail
     
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  6. Nov 5, 2019 at 6:19 AM
    #1746
    Deucer01

    Deucer01 Well-Known Member

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    So you disregarded said data. :facepalm:
     
  7. Nov 5, 2019 at 6:26 AM
    #1747
    mistareeman

    mistareeman Well-Known Member

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    Will retrofits bounce like OEM projectors? I've had a set of retro-fits done by TRS themselves in my old WRX and they were amazing. I'm looking at buying a set of stock headlights on flea-bay and trying my hand (and taking my time) at cracking them open and doing a retro-fit on my own with TRS kit. I'm NOT handy but I'll give it a shot and take my time, especially if I don't have the car 'down' while I do it.
     
  8. Nov 5, 2019 at 6:46 AM
    #1748
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    What data did he disregard? What he did (LED low/stock high) is a great option. The properly designed LEDs are a significant improvement over stock, are aesthetically pleasing to some, and (in theory) last a long time. I don't know how those specific bulbs perform, but there is no data in this thread that shows they DON'T perform well. I don't necessarily agree with fanless LEDs being better, but some people here seem to think they are. Since I know everyone here is above baseless LED bashing, lets see what data this is that you seem to think he disregarded. In case you missed his latest LED test, here's a snippet:


     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  9. Nov 5, 2019 at 6:50 AM
    #1749
    Rockoma5

    Rockoma5 Well-Known Member

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    They always hate. I love your responses back.
     
  10. Nov 5, 2019 at 6:56 AM
    #1750
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about an HID projector?
     
  11. Nov 5, 2019 at 7:03 AM
    #1751
    mistareeman

    mistareeman Well-Known Member

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    Yessir. HID projector in the stock OR headlight housing.
     
  12. Nov 5, 2019 at 7:05 AM
    #1752
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I do generalize sometimes. One of the challenges I have is most seem to think their specific LEDs in their specific reflectors don’t cause any additional glare, and the one product they tried works and they bought just the right product for their reflector application and while seemingly everyone else bought the wrong thing for their application, they are the exception to the rule. And often they got it for less than $50 off Amazon. They’ll show wall shots with light clearly going where it is not supposed to and when that is pointed out they try to justify that it doesn’t seem that bad or that the cut off line still still looks ok, that it doesn’t seem to bother them. And really wall shots are not a good glare test to begin with. I used to try to counter these claims one by one and they were always false, but it just isn’t worth my time. It is possible to design an LED to pass a FVMSS test, but it won’t be a super bright one like many people are trying to run, because that will add illegal levels of glare, which is why the reputable brands make LEDs closer to stock output levels. Diode Dynamics got their LED to pass FVMSS in a 2015 F-150 reflector, it is 1630 lumens as the output has to be moderated to keep the glare under control. I’m pretty sure the Hikaris are in the ballpark of 2500 lumens by comparison. And while you mention some vehicles could benefit from a few degrees in headlight angle change, this isn’t the cut off I am talking about, it is glare above the cut off. They are not the same. It isn’t as if the cut off shifts up a few degrees and you need to adjust it back, it is the lack of light above the cut off is no longer the same, as it has increased. A wall shot picture may show a very high intensity white light cut off, but hides the fact that light has increased significantly above the cut off due to the high contrast of the image or even looking at the wall in person, which is one of the reasons why the wall shots are not ideal. And the brighter the LED, the higher that contrast. A wall shot is better than nothing but this is where the FVMSS comes in to provide real quantitative data.

    There are SAE technical papers on the subject that you must be a professional level SAE member to review, though LEDs have continued to improve since the latest publication I’ve read. Another lighting enthusiast who does their own FVMSS tests on LEDs and shares the results as well as a bunch of other interesting automotive LED info is ‘Automotive LED Research’. You can follow him on Facebook.
     
  13. Nov 5, 2019 at 7:07 AM
    #1753
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The bouncing issue is from the Tacoma projector. A true HID retrofit replaces the halogen projector with an HID projector. Since the projector is replaced, it won’t have the bouncing issue.
     
  14. Nov 5, 2019 at 7:48 AM
    #1754
    gurneyeagle

    gurneyeagle Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes this thread is like watching someone, mainly crash, beat his head against the wall. No amount of scientific data and real world testing are going to change the minds of guys who want LED headlights in a vehicle that wasn't designed for it, no matter what the wife says about oncoming glare. Seriously?

    Just curious as to the backgrounds; i.e. education levels, of some of you who continue to dispute crash. :deadhorse:
     
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  15. Nov 5, 2019 at 8:04 AM
    #1755
    CAG Gonzo

    CAG Gonzo Ascendant Spaghetti

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    Is the current assessment that all tested LED bulbs do not perform well (and some may even be hazardous for other drivers) in stock Tacoma projectors? Thus the logical option is to stick with a halogen? And that this course of action applies to both low and high beams? And that all these statements are corroborated by the rigorous testing performed by OP? I want to make sure I have the facts before I let my opinions of other statements cloud my judgment.
     
  16. Nov 5, 2019 at 8:16 AM
    #1756
    ANTupLIFE

    ANTupLIFE Well-Known Member

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    There should definitely be a dedicated thread with scientific data for LEDs. They've been a bit disruptive.

    So far the data provided here has helped a lot of members. More so than those who want other options. I'm a little over a year with the same Hellas for lows and GE +130 for my fogs. I've purposely ridden side by side many vehicles with LEDs, and the benefit of proper bulbs has proved itself time and time again. It's actually normal to see a brand new Chevy / GMC with factory LEDs use their high beams more often than not. Proper bulbs will be the way for me until I get around to retrofitting next year.
     
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  17. Nov 5, 2019 at 9:25 AM
    #1757
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    No, my earlier comments a few posts above were in regards to reflectors. Projectors do not have an issue with hazardous LED glare by design of the projector light shield providing cut offs, independent of the LED light source. The issue with LEDs in projectors is lack of focus, which causes loss of distance projection even though the light source may be brighter. The smaller projector housings are far more sensitive to geometry changes from the larger LED light source, as the relative change in position by using a wider LED is more significant in a compact lighting assembly like a projector. See post #3 in this thread for the additional LED testing, I've tried to keep the relevant data in the first 3 posts. So far the Hikaris are the only drop in replacement LED I have tested that outperform a stock bulb at distance. While the design is cleaver, their build quality and reliability may be questionable for long term use. For those really wanting LEDs, the Morimoto XB replacement housings are the best way to go, though their high beam performance is lacking.
     
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  18. Nov 5, 2019 at 9:35 AM
    #1758
    Deucer01

    Deucer01 Well-Known Member

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    You comprehend well Sir. :thumbsup:
     
  19. Nov 5, 2019 at 9:40 AM
    #1759
    Deucer01

    Deucer01 Well-Known Member

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    I think he meant stock Tacoma reflectors in his first sentence. :notsure:
     
  20. Nov 5, 2019 at 12:26 PM
    #1760
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The Pro6 amber covers came in for the high beam project! An amber cover over a white LEDs makes for yellower light. I'd like something lower in color temperature for poor weather performance. It will be interesting to test how these perform.

    1BD387C3-5A05-45BE-A8FB-2A85F19DC7DF.jpg

    Before I get to that though, I need to figure out modifying my 3rd Gen Rigid 360s series fog mounts to have a level beam when installed on my 2nd Gen.

    [​IMG]
     
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