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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Nov 6, 2019 at 10:32 PM
    #1841
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Based on my use, I estimate those bulbs would last 9 months. So if you used your lights like I do, they’d be near end of life. If going with them again, it would be interesting to preemptively swap a new one in on one side to compare.
     
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  2. Nov 6, 2019 at 10:33 PM
    #1842
    Sasquatchian

    Sasquatchian Well-Known Member

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    All halogen lights degrade in terms of output over time and is one reason to replace them long before they actually burn out. There are too many variables for a person to be able to tell visually how much the output is diminished. You'd have to put an accurate meter on it, say, every ten hours until the bulb burned out and graph that to get an idea of when the optimal replacement time is. Of course, if you're driving around a well lit city - pretty much any modern city - none of this really matters that much as you get more light from streetlights than from headlights. And don't forget that there's an allowable 15% variability in output from any bulb sold, so there's one more variable that is virtually impossible to factor in without buying and testing dozens or more individual samples.
     
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  3. Nov 6, 2019 at 10:38 PM
    #1843
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I have a post with test measured data and pics on the subject below, but these are rather exotic performance bulbs that may be outside the norm of a standard bulb. This is from my 2nd Gen headlight thread:

    Halogens dim over time
    Halogen bulbs dim over time, typically loosing ~20% of their output by the bulbs end of life. You can see my post covering this with measured data on the Hyper bulbs in post #1465. Which is one of the reasons bulbs should be replaced in pairs.
     
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  4. Nov 7, 2019 at 4:30 AM
    #1844
    Bradg93

    Bradg93 Well-Known Member

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  5. Nov 7, 2019 at 5:02 AM
    #1845
    WZ00R2

    WZ00R2 Well-Known Member

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  6. Nov 7, 2019 at 5:19 AM
    #1846
    Tullie D

    Tullie D Well-Known Member

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    Those are the same bulbs that I have been using since April. They are noticeably brighter than the stock bulbs. I am very satisfied with them. Thanks Crash for pointing them out to us. :thumbsup:
     
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  7. Nov 7, 2019 at 7:51 AM
    #1847
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    Are they both drop-ins, or something fancy?

    Truly better in what way? If you've taken one single thing from this thread, I would think it's that there is no one stop, winner takes all better all around bulb. In our specific application, The high end H11 bulbs have great distance, but sacrifice peripheral light (supposedly. I'll get into my thoughts on that below), and have a ridiculously short life span. The H9 is cheap, has great distance AND peripheral light, but has illegal levels of glare (50% brighter to oncoming traffic. Not safe), and moves the peak beam intensity away from it's intended location (probably debatable). The LED (specifically the Hikari Ultra) has good distance, color (subjective), and theoretically the longest life. However, they cost the most, have awful signage lighting, and the long life is in question due to unknown build quality. Some other LEDs have a known build quality, but they aren't as bright because they they sacrifice output for glare compliance in various housing types. Every single light in this thread has compromises. It's up to the individual to decide which aspects are worth sacrificing because there is no better all around bulb. There is only better bulbs for your specific needs and/or desires.

    While not as hot as halogens, LED light does indeed put out quite a bit of energy. I have a little 900lm LED flashlight that I carry daily, and if you shine it at your lips you can feel the heat of the beam from a good 5 feet away. I used my bigger flashlight (Cree XHP70 emitter) as a little stove to re-melt my boot polish when it started crumbling in the can. If you don't clear your lights before you leave (which you should do no matter what type of bulb you have) it might take a little longer for the ice/snow to melt off, but it will still melt. However, unless you're in some freakishly arctic conditions, you shouldn't be too concerned with snow buildup as long as the lights are running. I never had a problem in my stock LED equipped Fusion.

    I don't have them, so this is just my hypothesis, but:

    I'm not 100% convinced the peripheral light on those is actually reduced like we've been saying. The focal increase is logical due to the decrease in overall filament dimensions. However, the decrease in size would normally lower the resistance if the filament were the same gauge, but the lower amperage indicates a higher resistance caused by a smaller gauge filament wire. Therefore, I think there is in fact an increase in overall brightness due to it "burning" hotter, thus brighter. This also explains the higher color temp and shorter life. I suspect the perceived decrease in side lighting is a result of the brighter hot spot. I forget biological terminology, but you know what I'm talking about. Of course, this is all assuming the filaments are made of the same metal.

    My thoughts are also reinforced by evo77's tests on HIDPlanet
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
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  8. Nov 7, 2019 at 8:10 AM
    #1848
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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  9. Nov 7, 2019 at 8:41 AM
    #1849
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    They are both drop ins, one being the Morimoto 2-stroke.

    Ahh who doesn’t enjoy a good FVMSS test!

    LED headlights without heaters can be a problem in snowy environments. I’ve witnessed this first hand. While they may feel slightly warm standing still, the air cooling effect of the vehicle in motion and below freezing temps are typically too much for the LEDs to overcome. I’ve got a great photo of this on a Tacoma somewhere. One of the things I was going to add to this thread is the temp comparisons between LED vs HID vs Halogen in the Tacoma headlights.

    I have access, I’ll check to see if it is a newer version of the technical paper I’ve already read on the subject. The publication date looks newer than the one I recall.
     
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  10. Nov 7, 2019 at 10:38 AM
    #1850
    Juggernaut

    Juggernaut Captain

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  11. Nov 7, 2019 at 10:51 AM
    #1851
    Deucer01

    Deucer01 Well-Known Member

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    I just mod the bulbs. Takes 5 seconds per bulb, harness adds resistance and is another corrosion point.
     
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  12. Nov 7, 2019 at 10:55 AM
    #1852
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    Yes you can modify the bulb easily with a dremel. Remove the top tab in the connector, when you put the h9 next to the h11 it’ll be obvious what to remove. I simply added a harness to make swapping bulbs easier in winter after having bad experiences with my old Subaru Outback eating bulbs like candy.
     
  13. Nov 7, 2019 at 11:03 AM
    #1853
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    The Morimoto doesn't look very promising. That blade looks pretty thick.
     
  14. Nov 7, 2019 at 3:49 PM
    #1854
    grubburg

    grubburg Well-Known Member

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    can someone summarize all this science for a dummy: what's the best $200 I can spend on my headlights for a 5000-6000 color temp?
     
  15. Nov 7, 2019 at 3:57 PM
    #1855
    mynameistory

    mynameistory Well-Known Member

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    Buy 14 pairs of H9 headlight bulbs and wear blue safety glasses.
     
  16. Nov 7, 2019 at 4:17 PM
    #1856
    mynameistory

    mynameistory Well-Known Member

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    It's 2019 buddy, you don't need my permission.
     
  17. Nov 7, 2019 at 4:47 PM
    #1857
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I just dont remember my Fusion having any icing issues... :notsure: I rescind my stance on drop-in LEDs resisting snow and ice, though. I assume it's because the headlight is a much larger lens than my flashlights, thus is less focused at close range, but there is very little heat emitted from the headlight at point blank range. Both of my flashlights are significantly warmer up close.
     
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  18. Nov 7, 2019 at 4:48 PM
    #1858
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    If you are really set on high color temp, look at the Hikaris LEDs in post #3. Halogen light sources won't practically reach those color temperatures.
     
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  19. Nov 7, 2019 at 4:51 PM
    #1859
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Diode Dynamics measured the distance between the emitter faces in one of their videos on focus, and it was ironically better than the Diode Dynamic product they were promoting in the video, though there was a bit of a slight of hand so most wouldn't notice. It is a popular brand, and I had the opportunity to add them by borrowing them from another member so I figured might as well.
     
  20. Nov 7, 2019 at 6:03 PM
    #1860
    MrMccrackin

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    @crashnburn80

    Pro6 with the cover with 31% lose is very hard to stomach!
     
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