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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Nov 7, 2019 at 6:23 PM
    #1861
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    @White lightning boosted Here is the Pro6.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  2. Nov 7, 2019 at 6:28 PM
    #1862
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    A bit more than I was hoping for. Rigid’s lost nearly 50% with clip on amber covers, but that was with their higher color temp lights. Rigids lights with selective yellow amber lenses were closer to 20%. Since KC had good 5000k light I was hoping for a little better numbers, but they also have made the light a really great true yellow color with no hints of green, which means more filtration and thus a bit higher in intensity loss. It is a balancing trade off.
     
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  3. Nov 7, 2019 at 6:41 PM
    #1863
    White lightning boosted

    White lightning boosted Well-Known Member

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    Lift, pedal commander, led foglights, led interior lights, led back ups, led under lighting, urd tcai, led headlights, methanol injection, 76mm tb, hood struts, dif breather mod, ratiotek trans kit, x-series gauges, true cool trans cooler, belt wrap mod, 2.8 pulley
    great feedback sir. what are the dimensions of this lamp housing? im interested in a behind grille application with minimum heat and obstruction of air flow. would a light bar be a better option for this?
     
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  4. Nov 7, 2019 at 8:41 PM
    #1864
    Bradg93

    Bradg93 Well-Known Member

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    Why is it illegal levels of glare? Just because of the way the Tacoma projectors work? If I put them in and point my headlights down more, isn’t that defeating the purpose of the better bulbs extending my high beam distance?
     
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  5. Nov 7, 2019 at 8:55 PM
    #1865
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Halogen projectors have uplight to illuminate overhead signs. They are not complete hard cut offs as many assume. Increasing the raw amount of halogen light output also increases the uplight. A performance high efficiency H11 increases focus for greater intensity, but output remains capped at legal limits. Yes aiming the headlights down defeats the distance projection gains and reduces visibility and it also does not actually address increased uplight.
     
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  6. Nov 7, 2019 at 8:58 PM
    #1866
    Bradg93

    Bradg93 Well-Known Member

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    Well shit I thought you guys were convincing me to get H9’s, now I’m finding out it’s illegal and going to hurt other drivers? Lol :confused:

    edit: we’re talking about low beams being too bright right? Obviously I would turn off high beams when I see other drivers but just want to be clear
     
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  7. Nov 7, 2019 at 9:06 PM
    #1867
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Dimensions on KCs site:
    https://www.kchilites.com/light-type/led/pro6-leds/gravity-led-pro6-single-pair-pack.html

    The KC Pro6 lights were selected for their best in class distance projection. A light bar will package nicer with lower airflow restriction behind the grill. There are only a few real driving pattern lights though. Rigid and Diode Dynamics make some. Most “driving” light bars are really combo bars which are a short range wide area optic paired with a narrow long range spot optic. Not the same as a wider area mid-long range driving optic.
     
  8. Nov 7, 2019 at 9:24 PM
    #1868
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I’m not certain what specific model projectors those tests were run in for absolute comparative numbers. But a halogen upgrade that increases raw output will increase output throughout the beam pattern in all aspects, including uplight. Note that even stock wattage performance bulbs see increases in uplight, but not quite to the same extent as their performance is achieved through focus intensity, not higher output.

    If looking for the best performing stock wattage bulb, then that is the GE Xenon +120.
     
  9. Nov 7, 2019 at 10:09 PM
    #1869
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    They're the popular Koito projector in those pics I posted. He repeated the test with another common projector (Stanley iirc) with similar results.

    Let me clarify my actual thoughts on what I said about the H9 glare, though. I pointed out the increased glare primarily because there are so many LED critics here that cite glare as a reason to avoid LEDs. The glare of the H9 is probably a similar increase as what the LEDs in my reflector equipped mustang exhibit. I don't honestly think 50% more of a dim light is suddenly going to blind people and cause unsafe driving conditions. It's when you have a 300% increase from HIDs or a total loss of the cutoff from poorly designed LEDs that you're gonna be "that guy."

    If the H9 is the route you are leaning towards, I wouldn't let that mild increase in glare deter you. If the Hikari bulbs let me down in the longevity department, and there isn't a better LED by then, I'll probably end up going the H9 route as well.
     
  10. Nov 8, 2019 at 6:19 AM
    #1870
    White lightning boosted

    White lightning boosted Well-Known Member

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    23 year warranty?! looks like quality to me.
     
    crashnburn80 [OP] likes this.
  11. Nov 8, 2019 at 12:23 PM
    #1871
    MiTacoTRD

    MiTacoTRD Well-Known Member

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    @crashnburn80, Thx for all your hard work on this! I just wished I had read this prior to getting VLEDs micro extremes H11 and letting the 30 day return window expired. I just Installed GE MLU +130 and I am really happy with them! The brightness, cut-off and throw is just what I needed. I now have the VLEDS in the Hi beam reflectors...As I only use them as needed. They're really bright but I guess theres a "dark hole" just like your pics with LEDs in the reflector housing shows. Any thoughts on leaving them on Highs? Thanks again!
     
  12. Nov 8, 2019 at 2:04 PM
    #1872
    Quacktacular81

    Quacktacular81 Member

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    My H9's arrived late last night, hoping to install this evening! Any info on the stock low beam bulbs being used in the H16 fogs? Assuming they will fit the housing, would the beam pattern be acceptable?
     
  13. Nov 8, 2019 at 5:44 PM
    #1873
    mynameistory

    mynameistory Well-Known Member

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    I've had drop-in LED bulbs installed on my truck since last year, and based on Crash's recommendations I've switched back to halogen (H9 upgrade). Keep in mind that I'm now in a 2016 4Runner. Here are my impressions that I shared during a conversation with Crash about selecting high beam bulbs:

    With the LED bulbs in the truck for a year, I became accustomed to their beam pattern. The neutral white color, the sharp cutoff, and the bright overall field of view are fairly characteristic of the LED bulb in the projector. When I travel over bumps, I can see the abrupt cutoff line swing up and down on the surrounding road and features. It seems brighter than stock, it IS brighter than stock.

    Switching to the H9, the obvious change is the color temperature. After that, the beam pattern. It actually seems less sharp on the cutoff edges when illuminating a wall. It takes some time, but the subtle differences start becoming apparent.

    The biggest overall difference is that... my eyes stop noticing the headlights beams at all. Instead, I'm seeing the features in front of my truck gently blend into the road ahead, and then again beyond the reach of the beams. I think others have discussed this before. The LED bulb will overpower and consume your near-field vision with the beam intensity, but at the expense of seeing anything beyond the cutoff. This means that you can only focus on and react to road features that "jump" into the illuminated area. And with the LED hotspot often misplaced, that illuminated distance is reduced- with some bulbs more considerably than others.

    I think that is my overall impression- I've stopped noticing my headlights and have started "seeing the road" again. I think this must be true with the OEM lighting as well. As inadequate as the stock bulbs seem, their purpose is to let the driver see the road ahead- rather than overpower their near-field impression.

    Companies that market drop-in bulbs count on this initial, brighter impression. However it's more superficial than beneficial in most cases.

     
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  14. Nov 8, 2019 at 8:36 PM
    #1874
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I have not tried those LEDs specifically. While the high beams appear to produce a flood of wide area light, their purpose is to extend distance projection. You can see in the Hikari post a comparison on the high beam pattern, and notice how their is higher intensity light right at the bottom of the pattern, as that is where you'd want it to extend your visibility on road. LEDs with better focus will enhance this area for distance performance better than those with poor focus that may give more scattered light to the rest of the beam but may end up losing the distance projection performance due to poor focus in that critical area. See lower part of the Hikari review for high beams in post #1608 here.

    Let us know what you think after taking it for a spin. Placing an H11 in there will amplify all parts of the pattern including glare. Stock fogs don't do the best job of glare control, I don't think the glare would be much worse than the stock fogs that take H11s, though I have not tried the standard non-wide angle fogs.
     
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  15. Nov 8, 2019 at 9:00 PM
    #1875
    Quacktacular81

    Quacktacular81 Member

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    The H9's went in just as described. Trimmed the tab and plugged into the factory harness. Didn't get a chance to take it for a spin.

    I could not get the H11's to seat into the fog housings. The tabs look to be identical, but something is apparently different.
     
  16. Nov 8, 2019 at 9:03 PM
    #1876
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    That is the result I have typically heard from the fogs. I haven't looked at it first hand.
     
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  17. Nov 8, 2019 at 9:08 PM
    #1877
    CAG Gonzo

    CAG Gonzo Ascendant Spaghetti

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    Here's a question I haven't seen in this thread (unless I missed it): if you lift your truck, is it wise to realign the headlights? Do you need to realign halogens? Can they even be realigned?
     
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  18. Nov 8, 2019 at 9:14 PM
    #1878
    Tullie D

    Tullie D Well-Known Member

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    I didn't try putting the OE low beam H11s in my fog housings, but the Nokya NOK7618 Hyper Yellow bulbs, which are also H11s fit easily. There must be something different between these fog housings. :notsure:

    BTW, my OE fog lights were H16s.
     
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  19. Nov 8, 2019 at 9:27 PM
    #1879
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    It depends, but in general it is something you should check. A small minor lift (equal front and rear) may not require much if any adjustment. If you have a significant lift, such as going to 3" and 285s, you've added significant height to your vehicle and the headlights should likely be adjusted down some to avoid blinding oncoming traffic. But it is a balance, because over adjustment also means you lose the distance projection in your headlights. If you lifted the front more than the rear, then not only have you changed the height, you have changed the pitch of the truck, which changes the angle the light is projecting by raising the cut off significantly. In this cases it is very important to re-aim the lights to correct the cut off line. And yes, the halogen lights can be aimed. Be careful to only use the vertical adjuster. The horizontal adjuster can be a nightmare to return to center.
     
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  20. Nov 8, 2019 at 9:30 PM
    #1880
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I suspect it is the bulbs, as I have heard from many that H11s are not plug and play in the fogs. And Osram is a pretty common bulb. Nokya on the other hand, is not so common by comparison.
     
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