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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Nov 8, 2019 at 9:41 PM
    #1881
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean re-aiming the headlights? If so, I wholeheartedly recommend it. From the factory our headlights are aimed low imo. If you search under my screen name for “aim headlights” the method and reasonings I used should come up. If I recall correctly I ended up raising the cutoff 0.5-0.75”. It made the stock bulbs usable imo.
     
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  2. Nov 8, 2019 at 9:45 PM
    #1882
    CAG Gonzo

    CAG Gonzo Ascendant Spaghetti

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    It'll be a minor lift, 1-2", remaining on stock OR tires. Factory rake will be preserved. Thanks for the info!

    I did not know all of that. I'll take a look at your findings. Appreciate the help!
     
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  3. Nov 9, 2019 at 4:32 AM
    #1883
    From_The_Sideline

    From_The_Sideline New Member

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    After reading all the pages, I decided to take the recommendation from crash for the 4Runner. I have a 19 T4R pro, so I looked up https://www.rallylights.com/ and I saw that they weren’t very far from where I live. Last week I was going to be really close by to them. So, I stopped by to see if I could pickup the H9 bulbs. I met Wil the owner, who couldn’t be nicer. I told him how I found out about them on the Tacoma forum. We spoke about what I was doing and about the harnesses that everyone was modifying for the H9. He informed me that he could make the harness which they did while I was there. He also said, he will have the correct H9 connector coming in soon to be able to make a H11 to H9 plug. Great guy to talk to and purchase from.
     
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  4. Nov 9, 2019 at 8:08 AM
    #1884
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    I’ll try to consolidate my headlight aim posts:

    Going off of the IIHS recommendations for headlight range on low beams, the right side head light should reach out to approximately 325ft. According to their tests, the Tacoma only reaches out to approximately 220ft. Knowing that the headlight height is 40" (on my stock SR with 180 pounds of sand in the bed and no one in the driver seat), that would mean that a stock Tacoma's headlights are angled down at 0.86804 degrees, while an "ideal" aim would be angled down at 0.58757 degrees. Back to the wall test measurements... Knowing that my truck is 10ft away from the wall, and that the stock aim is 0.86804 degrees down, I should see a drop of 1.82" vs an ideal of 1.23", a difference of 0.59". Right? Feels right... So raising the stock headlight aim by 0.5" should get me a beam pattern closer to IIHS's ideal than the factory aim.

    Here’s the Toyota spec:




    I couldn’t get to 25 ft as we have too much stuff in the warehouse at the moment, but Toyota also lists an aiming spec for 10ft.

    Start by pulling in to the shop and get close to the door to mark the bulb centers and measure the height.







    The dot that marks the center of the bulb is right at 40” (stock SR with 180 pounds of sand in the bed by the cab).

    Toyota’s spec for aim is the top of the cutoff and/or the center of intensity aka the hot spot should be at the same height as the center of the bulb at 3m, +/-1.57”. So I backed the truck up:



    And measured at the wall



    Both adjusters are on the back middle of the headlight and look like dull silver geared screws. It’s an 8mm hex head on the screw. You’ll need a flat surface and a flat wall you can back away from by 10’ that’s light in color, preferably white. I used a garage door at my work warehouse.

    Pull your truck as close as you can to the wall, find the nub in front of the projector that denotes the center of the headlight, then mark it on the wall. Measure the height of the nub from the ground and measure your mark to make sure it’s the same height.

    Turn your headlights on, and mark the right side of the projector cutoff. Back up 10’, keeping the hot spots of the headlights centered on the wall marks. Mark the right side of each projector cutoff again. Toyota’s spec is that both are supposed to be at the height of the center mark, on my truck it’s 40”, but the spec is +/- 1.5”. From the cutoff mark, measure up 0.5, 1, and 1.5”. Turn the adjustment screws until the cutoff is level or just above the 0.5” line. You’ll know you’ve gone too high once you drive at night as the cutoff line will point up and the projector hot spot disappears in to the night vs falling nicely on the road 50-100’ (guesstimate) further than stock.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  5. Nov 9, 2019 at 6:41 PM
    #1885
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Go Hawks!
    @Rockoma5 this is for you.

    Beamtech Amazon H11 LEDs
    Specs:
    Output: 8000 lumens (4000 Lumens per bulb)
    Power: 50w (25w per bulb)
    Color: 6500k

    7FED5FF3-3912-48FA-8C22-00F8D4B3013B.jpg

    Cross section
    1A90C0A2-C989-447B-BAD7-AE7BFA7DEB23.jpg

    Measuring cross section, 4.9mm. Among the widest (worst) I’ve tested. Target is 1.4mm. Wider LEDs lose the hot spot, lose focus and lose distance projection.

    Power draw
    35430716-F3D1-43DC-8C67-7C4B7668A9F7.jpg

    While advertised as 25w, they only draw 11w. The lowest I’ve measured for a drop in LED.

    Pattern
    Beamtech vs stock
    2D1C4A05-8B9C-4143-B49F-E36D6E0B656D.jpg

    At 18’ the hot spot is completely lost. The result is a non-focused short range flood pattern, which makes for terrible headlight performance.

    Output
    34B04186-6B0F-42CE-84D6-284D6C6F264F.jpg

    Compared to stock the Beamtechs have a 34% output loss. That is measured at 18’, if measuring at the extended distance test the numbers would likely be significantly worse due to the focus loss. While claiming 4000 lumens, they are handily beat by a 1200 lumen stock used halogen bulb.

    They spec 6500k, the measured actual is 7249k, which is far higher color temp than ideal.

    Many often seem to think they are getting a great deal on really cheap Amazon LEDs. The specs are often way over inflated. Poor designs lead to loss of focus and shifts the light to a short range flood light which people intrinsically initially like more foreground light, so people give the light good reviews and recommend it to others not realizing they have lost their distance projection, which is the primary purpose of a headlight.

    If looking for a drop in LED, you’d be far better off with the Hikaris. If these were a halogen bulb, based on their output performance, they wouldn’t even meet the legal minimum for headlight output of an H11.

    :cheers:
     
  6. Nov 9, 2019 at 11:11 PM
    #1886
    mynameistory

    mynameistory Well-Known Member

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  7. Nov 10, 2019 at 2:14 AM
    #1887
    Garab

    Garab Well-Known Member

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    Lmfao. Savage. This made me burst out laughing in a silent room at work. My coworker is looking at me funny.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  8. Nov 10, 2019 at 10:11 AM
    #1888
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    @crashnburn80 since I only need one bulb for my bike, would you be interested in testing the other one if I sent it to you? They're H7, though, so I don't know if it would even be worth trying to make that work.
     
  9. Nov 10, 2019 at 10:53 AM
    #1889
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I don’t have any H7 assemblies to test in, just Tacoma 3rd Gen H11 and late model 2nd Gen H4.
     
  10. Nov 10, 2019 at 11:35 AM
    #1890
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    You can do the tests yourself, assuming you have a garage and an iPhone. There are free light meter apps that will let you measure lux. Aim the bike at a wall with a stock halogen and measure, then follow up with whatever LEDs you have to try. You’ll have different numbers than crashes but it’s the comparison that counts not the absolute values.
     
  11. Nov 10, 2019 at 11:49 AM
    #1891
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Those are not accurate. And while you could make the case for using an inaccurate meter to use as a representative comparison of two of the same light sources, it will be wildly off when measuring two different types of light sources. Here is a post I have on the topic:

     
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  12. Nov 10, 2019 at 3:05 PM
    #1892
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    Also, access to the headlight on my bike is meme worthy. It would be easier to just buy two of the same bike with different bulbs already installed.
     
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  13. Nov 10, 2019 at 4:17 PM
    #1893
    Deucer01

    Deucer01 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting the 10' procedure. I can do that in my garage but a 25' 90* wall is hard to find.
     
  14. Nov 10, 2019 at 6:37 PM
    #1894
    Rockoma5

    Rockoma5 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting test. I wonder why when I look at my lights hitting the wall I can clearly see the hot spot. Either way I still love my led lights.
     
  15. Nov 10, 2019 at 6:40 PM
    #1895
    Rockoma5

    Rockoma5 Well-Known Member

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    I was going to try the hikari but wasn’t sure if I like the fan as far as reliability.
     
  16. Nov 10, 2019 at 7:26 PM
    #1896
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Likely distance. Focus issues are not apparent at short range.

    Agreed on the fans an possible reliability issues. I’ve got Philips latest H11 LEDs on order out of Japan, Philips are fanless and as one of the largest names in lighting, reliability shouldn’t be an issue. I’ve tested their H4 model but not the H11. They are not sold domestically though, but you can find them from Japanese sellers shipping out of Japan on eBay. Note there is an H11 model available domestically, but it is a lower output foglight model, not something you’d want to try in a headlight. As usual I’ll sell the Philips once done. :)
     
  17. Nov 10, 2019 at 8:35 PM
    #1897
    NMTrailRider

    NMTrailRider Well-Known Member

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    I’ve got the Philips H11 fogs and they’re insanely bright, so I don’t use them on the road. I even have yellow LaminX on the lenses and they’re still insanely bright.

    921F25E5-F70E-45DE-98F6-FC35EE4BA72E.jpg

    it’s interesting... they have a VERY sharp cut off... but there is still a ton of glare.
     
  18. Nov 10, 2019 at 8:42 PM
    #1898
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The fog model uses cooling fans vs the headlight model that does not. Wise not time run them on the street, the factory fogs do a poor job of glare control with even a halogen bulb, which is why I recommend a replacement housing from the SAE LED fog thread. Then you can boost output while simultaneously making your lights more effective and safer for oncoming drivers.
     
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  19. Nov 10, 2019 at 9:04 PM
    #1899
    mynameistory

    mynameistory Well-Known Member

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    Those are the ones I have as well, except with yellow integrated covers (Philips 12793UNIX2).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Now working my way back from drop-in LED bulbs. I think I'm leaning towards an entire housing replacement for the fogs. The Rigid 360s look promising, waiting for the release of the Toyota mount.
     
  20. Nov 10, 2019 at 9:32 PM
    #1900
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Philips fog LEDs are 700 lumen actual. The 360s are 3100 lumen raw. Based on other documents I’ve seen specifying Rigid’s raw to actual, I’d estimate the 360s around 1750 actual. Way more light, while also providing hard projector cut offs for far less glare than stock.

    For others you can read more on them here in post #1518: Rigid 360 Series
     
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