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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Nov 17, 2019 at 12:29 AM
    #1961
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I realize you are new. I have a lot of LEDs, I've probably run more lights and definitely have more measured light data than anyone on this forum. I agree opinions are of little value and facts are where it is at. Which is why I deal in facts.

    Osram H11 in TRD fogs:
    96E2A7FB-E011-4F3E-A831-8B7D8F67F77C.jpg

    Osram H11 in TRD fog. As typical, poor beam pattern in a reflector with poor cut offs
    754D9CB1-A039-441E-9464-DFF4363700D6.jpg

    Placing my hand well above the cut off line, there should be no light here...
    1EA7BB2F-3E42-4249-8437-BF133864E91D.jpg

    Rigids SAE J583 selective yellow fogs. Higher output with sharp cut offs.
    A883DAF2-2714-4DC7-88DE-0A7D30D99BA3.jpg

    The Osram drop in LEDs are not legal and cause excessive glare. The Rigid SAE J583 fogs are higher intensity and have no glare and are street legal. This isn't socialism legal vs illegal, this is a product that is designed from the ground up to have the correct beam pattern vs one that is not.
     
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  2. Nov 17, 2019 at 6:33 AM
    #1962
    gurneyeagle

    gurneyeagle Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you couldn't care less about the other drivers you blind with the glare from improperly fitted LED's in a housing designed for halogens.

    As crash mentioned above, science and facts trump unfounded opinions.
     
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  3. Nov 17, 2019 at 8:08 AM
    #1963
    El Duderino

    El Duderino 808 to the 503

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    Stuff, things, this, an ADS
    I really hate following the pesky law for murder, defrauding people out of money and stealing. Damn BS socialist laws
     
  4. Nov 17, 2019 at 9:21 AM
    #1964
    skierd

    skierd Well-Known Member

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    ok boomer.
     
  5. Nov 17, 2019 at 4:17 PM
    #1965
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    @crashnburn80, Just a quick advocation for the devil: @SRBenjamin did say that he installed those bulbs in his low beams, so he's probably correct in all his statements that there's no glare, and they aren't much brighter.

    The H9 bulb in any housing on our truck other than the high beam is also illegal. If one were to put that bulb in our fog light, it would probably be worse than an LED in terms of glare. If we're going to crap on someone's parade based on legal disclaimers, let's not recommend an illegal alternative.
     
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  6. Nov 17, 2019 at 4:27 PM
    #1966
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Man, my bad! :anonymous:

    I read fogs and went with fogs. Apologies @SRBenjamin for the confusion! However you definitely do not want to run the Osram led fog bulbs in the headlights! They put out less than the raw legal minimum for an H11 headlight bulb, and that paired with the poor projection performance is going to make for a very unsafe short sighted light. Which is why they are labeled as fogs. I believe there is even a warning on the package that the bulb is inadequate for headlight use.
     
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  7. Nov 17, 2019 at 5:25 PM
    #1967
    KevC

    KevC Well-Known Member

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    So seems like the consensus is for those that want the higher temp (white lights) in a projector housing. The winner is the hikari's?
     
  8. Nov 17, 2019 at 5:33 PM
    #1968
    El Duderino

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    Stuff, things, this, an ADS
    If you value color over throw of light then yes
     
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  9. Nov 17, 2019 at 5:35 PM
    #1969
    Tullie D

    Tullie D Well-Known Member

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    Really? Please point provide a link that shows using a H9 bulb in the low beam position is illegal.

    Bet you can't do it.

     
  10. Nov 17, 2019 at 5:38 PM
    #1970
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    H9s in low beams are not inherently illegal. Some years RAV4 uses a 9005 high beam bulb for the low. The Tacoma uplight is configured for a lower output H11, so the uplight with an H9 will exceed legal spec in a FVMSS test as tested by at least one source.
     
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  11. Nov 17, 2019 at 5:44 PM
    #1971
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a vehicle equipment enforcement officer (I leave that silliness to State Patrol) but I have to assume that using a bulb that is not designed for the housing is not legal.

    That, and as Crash just said, which I have posted pics of, the H9 glare exceeds legal limits. Go back a few pages to get more details on my thoughts about that, though.
     
  12. Nov 17, 2019 at 5:45 PM
    #1972
    Sasquatchian

    Sasquatchian Well-Known Member

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    If the laws are indeed bullshit as you claim then maybe, but laws regarding vehicle lighting are absolutely not in that category. Like most laws, they are designed to make things safer for the everyone - for the common good. If you think that you have a better, safer solution, then, by all means contact your local representative and see if they're interested in your cause. My guess is probably not. And, unfortunately, unless you have decades of experience in lighting, lighting engineering or even the hands on experience of Crashburn on this site, you likely don't even know how to evaluate the light that you are looking at. Our brains have funny ways of perceiving what our eyes are sending.
     
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  13. Nov 17, 2019 at 5:49 PM
    #1973
    RushT

    RushT Well-Known Member

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    Comin’ in hard and fast. :)
     
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  14. Nov 17, 2019 at 5:52 PM
    #1974
    Tullie D

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    Uh-huh. Kinda what I thought. :anonymous:
     
  15. Nov 17, 2019 at 6:03 PM
    #1975
    KevC

    KevC Well-Known Member

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    Well it seems like the h11's GE upgrade is definitely better throw. however, I use my lights quite a bit so I'd say i'll get maybe 6-7 months out of them. Having to swap them out that often is a turn off for me. If I can find LED's that last longer for slightly less throw than the GE's. Personally, i think it's a better risk vs gain for me.
     
  16. Nov 17, 2019 at 6:16 PM
    #1976
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    The laws are in place for a reason, but they aren't always black and white, cut and dry. There's a LOT of grey area. The simple fact that a product isn't SAE, DOT, ECE, ect approved doesn't automatically mean its unsafe. It just means that some aspect of it can't meet all the standards in all housings. Some OEM lights that meet all the standards are still crap. Our low beams suck. Ford OEM LEDs are aimed too high something because they seem to have the worst glare of about anything. However, as I've mentioned several times, the H9 doesn't meet the legal standards, but it's the highest recommended bulb here. So some legal bulbs suck, and some illegal bulbs are great.

    In my area, in the conditions I typically drive in, those small differences in glare levels are negligible. I've been paying close attention lately, and the only lights that bother me are high beams, bad HIDs, and old LEDs that completely disregard the cutoff, (oh, and Ford LEDs). There are so many hills that you are either well below or well above everyone else's cutoff, and only the worst offenders stand out. If you live in a rural area with nice flat roads, it may be a totally different case for you, though.

    Am I advising everyone to ignore legal disclaimers? No. Just do a bit of research to see what works in your specific application.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  17. Nov 17, 2019 at 6:26 PM
    #1977
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    I say go for it. I absolutely love my Hikari Ultras. I haven't tried the H9 or HP H11 bulbs to compare, but the throw is still better than stock. They light the road perfectly well all the way to the cutoff on level ground. The only real downside (so far) is the uplight. They suck at lighting overhead signs.

    One somewhat obscure bonus I find neat is that the blade style bulb in the projector makes the headlights look like cat eyes from the front. :thumbsup:
     
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  18. Nov 17, 2019 at 9:46 PM
    #1978
    Redline870

    Redline870 Well-Known Member

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    I tried Sylvania Zevo LED bulbs in my 2018 Tacoma and they were not an effective low beam. They appeared brighter at first, but after using them for a few days I started thinking that maybe I was just trying to convince myself they were brighter to justify the price tag. Sure enough I compared them to the stock Osram H11 halogens and the hot spot or “throw” of the stock halogen was clearly better. I then tried them in the fog lights, this is where they seemed to shine (no pun intended). In the application of fog lights that don’t need the long distance throw, they worked pretty well. I still ended up returning them for the Philips Xtreme Vision Ultinon. The Philips are much nicer. They have no uplighting and mimic the halogen pattern very well. I also ended up going HID for the low beams which I’m very happy with. In the stock projector, HID’s or upgraded halogens are the way to go, drop in LED’s just don’t seem to work well in Halogen style projectors.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  19. Nov 18, 2019 at 4:34 AM
    #1979
    TACO_ROCKET

    TACO_ROCKET Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations on 100 pages, everyone!
     
  20. Nov 18, 2019 at 9:03 AM
    #1980
    SRBenjamin

    SRBenjamin Active Member

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    I've been using H4 E-code headlights for longer than most on the forum have been on earth. I know all about the DOT BS laws. For years the rest of the world
    had good quality lamps because they adapted Euro spec laws, instead of the DOT regs on headlight output. The only reason we have a cut off at all is because
    auto makers wanted to use the same lights in all cars (import/domestic).

    I've never had a headlight in anything the was offensive to oncoming traffic. I know all about headlight tech, as it's been one of my hobbies since 1986.
     

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