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3rd gen - True crawlin thread.

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by In4aride, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Nov 21, 2020 at 8:52 PM
    #1581
    literallynothing

    literallynothing Fueled by Riceroni and Coors Light

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    TJM is starting to make them, and they are a pretty sweet set up. In the event of a failure, they fail locked rather than open (only locker on the market that does that) which to me would be great for the rear, but not for the front
     
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  2. Nov 22, 2020 at 4:44 AM
    #1582
    ovrlndkull

    ovrlndkull STUKASFK - HC4LIFE

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    That seems like it could be very problematic failed locked without some sort of disconnect for the front like locking hubs or an ADD. Same with off roading would make a lot maneuvering around extremely difficult. Even the rear for parking lot maneuvers, until you get it fixed, would be annoying as all get out. I do kinda like that concept though it's interesting.
     
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  3. Nov 22, 2020 at 6:57 AM
    #1583
    literallynothing

    literallynothing Fueled by Riceroni and Coors Light

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    Not sure if all of their lockers will be like that, but the 4800 car I pitted for at KOH last year had them and for that it’s super ideal. I think that’s more their target audience than ifs Toyotas haha. A lot of those guys run spool, so you can basically think about it as a spool that you can disengage
     
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  4. Nov 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM
    #1584
    In4aride

    In4aride [OP] www.warfabarmor.com Vendor

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    Yeah failed closed great rear not front for sure. But if racing is the name I think locked is best. Spools rock :D
     
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  5. Nov 22, 2020 at 8:12 AM
    #1585
    Anderson5290

    Anderson5290 Drive it like you stole it!

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    I think you should consider keeping the trailing arms and boxing the frame in where the coilovers are going. I would change the motion ratio of the trailing arms and set them up maybe 6-7 inches from the center of the bolt on the lower axle side mount. If you do this and run a shorter coilover probably 12” long and you will get roughly 15-17 inches of travel depending on the arm length from that and have more clearance at the tire and frame with the shocks pushed further on the arm. Even with a swaybar, which will for sure help the rig is still going to act funny with the shocks so far inboard there is no way around it. And I don’t no how you are for space in the bed but now might be the time for a fuel cell so you can keep the Lowers triangulated slightly since that’s a lot for force on that upper. The rig will work a lot better in the rocks with a proper 4 link and you will be able to change your frame side separation which to me looks a bit much.
     
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  6. Nov 22, 2020 at 8:20 AM
    #1586
    In4aride

    In4aride [OP] www.warfabarmor.com Vendor

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    I always find myself extremely curious where people get the idea that a three link is inferior to a four link? Especially to the specific application of rock crawling.
     
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  7. Nov 22, 2020 at 8:34 AM
    #1587
    Anderson5290

    Anderson5290 Drive it like you stole it!

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    Never said it was inferior. A proper 3 link with track bar works awesome and I would prefer that over his style upper arm any day of the week, the last 20 rigs I built all had that exact set up. But I do believe his design is inferior to a 4 link. There is a lot of stress placed on that upper arm with the mounts only 10 inches apart or so trying to control the rear of the that rig and do the job of a trackbar and upper link at the same time. If the frame side separation is the same in the 3 and 4 link, depending on the placement of the track bar they will essentially work the same.
     
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  8. Nov 22, 2020 at 8:44 AM
    #1588
    In4aride

    In4aride [OP] www.warfabarmor.com Vendor

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    Got it. I see what you're saying now.:thumbsup: I took it as needing a 4 link over a 3 link. I hear it ALLLLLL the time how we screwed our build doing 3 link not 4 link :rofl::rofl:
    So far none of them have been able to answer why but it's a very rampant idea. Always gives me a chuckle.
    I do agree 100% that upper arm is going to get beat up something fierce. Hopefully it works for him, bit I don't see it lasting long. I'd like to get his numbers to plug it in and see how his numbers change in travel. For a crawling application I see it hopping a lot as the as number will change heavy in travel. But anyway, morning safety meeting :rasta:.
     
  9. Nov 22, 2020 at 9:10 AM
    #1589
    Anderson5290

    Anderson5290 Drive it like you stole it!

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    Dude, a 3 link if the pan hard is set close to flat at half of the shock travel hardly moves the front or rear axle at all. My front axle maybe moves 1- 1.25 inches through 12 inches of travel. So I too love the 3 link in front or rear. And for up and down travel that set up will work fine with no side load. Soon as you start articulating it’s going to want to tear it apart or have excess side to side play.
     
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  10. Nov 22, 2020 at 9:14 AM
    #1590
    In4aride

    In4aride [OP] www.warfabarmor.com Vendor

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    Yeah I'm more worried about if it gets pitched into a corner or berm hard. I dunno. Maybe the folks building it know something I don't. But so far hasn't seemed that way. Plus most of us in here agree there are some physical challenges with setup. Hopefully he changes or prices us wrong. All I really care is he doesn't hurt himself or someone else with a bad idea.
     
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  11. Nov 22, 2020 at 9:34 AM
    #1591
    Anderson5290

    Anderson5290 Drive it like you stole it!

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    I never seen something like that work, but my money is on it not working well in the rocks, and like you said hitting a berm seems Sketchy at speed to use trailing arms with the amount of side load it’s going to see.at minimum I would like to seem some heims at the frame end for strength, if they are inline and In a triangle like the pic they can’t move separate from each other so poly bushing are going to be a deficit there. At least heims would hold up to side load better but then I’d be worried about the upper axle mount and how stout the frame mount is on the upper. The further the upper frame side mounts are apart within reason the stronger the upper will be.
     
  12. Nov 22, 2020 at 9:38 AM
    #1592
    In4aride

    In4aride [OP] www.warfabarmor.com Vendor

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    yeah and anti-wobble setup on a cartridge joint I think would have been the best overall option, but I'm interested to see how everything progresses.
     
  13. Nov 22, 2020 at 9:44 AM
    #1593
    ovrlndkull

    ovrlndkull STUKASFK - HC4LIFE

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    Both have their advantages and disadvantages and most aren't set up well. Even a perfectly placed panhard you get some axle movement and thus some axle steer. With most people's 4 links (that I've seen) they don't have enough triangulation to get rid of the panhard. Even one with good triangulation you have to get that perfect or you end up with unwanted axle steer that can be even worse. One advantage I see for a proper triangulated 4 link is not having to worry with another bar in a different arch to contend with. I am also thinking of full hydro set ups where you can get rid of all mechanical steering components and buggies where packaging isn't as crucial.

    THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE is the 4th link. If you break a mount, heim, link bar, etc you still have that 4th link to keep the axle somewhat from getting stupid and rotating like crazy and doing more damage to the drive shaft or other things. Saw an old yota with a 3 link and the pinion rolled really bad doing a lot more damage that potentially a 4th link could of helped prevent.

    It's weird to me the offroader's term a proper 4 link. What does that mean, synonynous with triangulated???

    I've just been sitting on the sidelines watching this guys link set up and shocks and well definitely not what I would do with the limited packaging there are far better ways and if you aren't moving the tank or anything like that a 3 link with panhard is how I would do it.
     
  14. Nov 22, 2020 at 9:53 AM
    #1594
    In4aride

    In4aride [OP] www.warfabarmor.com Vendor

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    Yeah I think most mean a dual tri-4 setup when they say 'proper' 4 link. In which numbers are good.
    Crazy pinon movement is generally a side effect of paying attention to numbers only at ride height and not how numbers look in progressive movement. Where a lot of rigs get hop.
    Axle steer is even bad in high travel leaf spring setups. It's a compromise for packaging for sure. If packaging isn't an issue, then less compromises are made. Just a matter of what works where and when.
    Why I like trying to see if this thing will hold together and work and make us all look dumb. Maybe learn something. Everyone questioned our setup and said it won't work and blah blah blah, but it's super point and shoot and just walks up shit. So maybe his will be the same. Time will tell.
     
  15. Nov 22, 2020 at 11:37 AM
    #1595
    Anderson5290

    Anderson5290 Drive it like you stole it!

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    My idea of proper rear 4 link first off doesn’t matter if it’s single or double triangulated, use what works for ur rig, double is harder to fit and set up for a rear application not too much or too little frame or axle separation. And the rear steer you’re going to get from a single triangulated set up 99% of people will never ever notice and it doesn’t matter unless you’re competition crawling. Axle separation should be roughly 25% of your tire size. Frame side I like between 5-6 inches depending on packaging. I don’t build 4 link fronts so not sure about that. But I build close to parallel 3 link fronts and they work awesome. 3 links work and I’ve yet to see one fail unless the builder doesn’t make the mounts strong enough. I wheel out in Johnson Valley and we are not nice to our rigs and never have suspension failures.
     
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  16. Nov 22, 2020 at 8:53 PM
    #1596
    Epic3rdgen

    Epic3rdgen Well-Known Member

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    I do have an anti wobble set up. My arms are 44” they are 30” to the ground from the top mount. I’m mounting the new 10” coils 18” up from the axle. I will yield 9” up travel and 9” full droup off a 10” coil over. My Triple bypasses are 10” too and I’m running those at 23” up from axle. We plan to take this truck out on its trailer and beat it up off-road and test this system well. I want to be safe too that is why I have overbuilt this design by 50% 5/8 bolts on lower arms and 3/4 bolts on upper A arm. Using .250 wall 2” DOM and 1/4 flat steel gussets.. I’m going to get right this time. 3rd time is the charm.....
     
  17. Nov 22, 2020 at 9:08 PM
    #1597
    In4aride

    In4aride [OP] www.warfabarmor.com Vendor

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    Oh it looked like you were bushing frame side.
     
  18. Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM
    #1598
    Epic3rdgen

    Epic3rdgen Well-Known Member

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    Happy Thanksgiving my crawling family. The wife got me the sway bar from Currie. And my 3 link design has been working well on RC cars for years...I’m going to move the center diff mount up 4” and gusset big time just for extra safety. I’ll install the sway bar on Saturday... 1326D52B-1A72-4090-BA45-FC1829180465.jpgACA1BA0C-C52B-4C08-9BC8-AA7C5A884DB3.jpg
     
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  19. Nov 26, 2020 at 10:37 AM
    #1599
    In4aride

    In4aride [OP] www.warfabarmor.com Vendor

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    Wishbone is a common and proven concept, however standard wishbone and what you're doing are two different things. Your lateral separation on the upper/wishbone link is likely not even half of a typical setup.
     
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  20. Nov 26, 2020 at 5:35 PM
    #1600
    Anderson5290

    Anderson5290 Drive it like you stole it!

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    Just got done doing Phillips loop, Doran loop and Odessa canyon out in calico today for thanksgiving. Little damage to a wheel and skid and exhaust but not too bad. Now I need to tuck my exhaust up.

    B4BA1398-B757-40D5-8025-AD87D0CBE498.jpg
    88AF06B4-8480-4CD0-86A0-E2C8FE428F6F.jpg
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