1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

3RZ Balance Shaft Delete

Discussion in '4 Cylinder' started by sachou, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. Dec 9, 2009 at 5:52 PM
    #1
    sachou

    sachou [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Member:
    #23554
    Messages:
    644
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Sam
    Richland, Washington
    Vehicle:
    2006 TRD Sport Acc Cab 4x4 V6 6spd
    Screwing around youtube, and I stumbled upon this video on youtube, looks like kind of a redneck guy who wheels the crap out of his rig, and does very ghetto modifications to marginally increase power, while doing it cheaply (I mean, he has pacesetter headers, lol).

    I've googled some of his mods, like pcv inline catch (Mine was already converted to a breather with a filter), throttle body coolant passthrough bypass (some guy on a mazda forum was a physicist and calculated it in his post and determined only a .13% hp increase), and ect mod (seems like it's throw all sorts of codes and just not be a good idea in the long run).



    THE IMPORTANT PART OF THIS POST:
    What stood out to me is the Balance shaft delete. After googling and Wiki-ing, it seems like just a ride comfort thing, and removing it would add around 5hp. LC Engineering makes a delete kit for $100, so I more or less know it is a legitimate mod, as I trust LCE.

    Has anybody tried this? Heard any bad things...good things...? Not much coverage on the internet about balance shaft deletes, as it is only a 4 cylinder thing.
     
  2. Dec 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM
    #2
    98tacoma27

    98tacoma27 :POOPCORN: Thor

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Member:
    #11714
    Messages:
    48,249
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ben
    Beech Creek
    Vehicle:
    05 Tundra SR5, 88 SR5 PU, 98 TRD OR (CRUSHED)
    5100's all on fours
    ECT mod is just causing it to run rich, hence all the black smoke. More trouble than it is worth.
     
  3. Dec 9, 2009 at 6:09 PM
    #3
    sachou

    sachou [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Member:
    #23554
    Messages:
    644
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Sam
    Richland, Washington
    Vehicle:
    2006 TRD Sport Acc Cab 4x4 V6 6spd
    That's what I thought, so I immediately disregarded it.
     
  4. Dec 9, 2009 at 6:10 PM
    #4
    98tacoma27

    98tacoma27 :POOPCORN: Thor

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Member:
    #11714
    Messages:
    48,249
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ben
    Beech Creek
    Vehicle:
    05 Tundra SR5, 88 SR5 PU, 98 TRD OR (CRUSHED)
    5100's all on fours
    Yeah, it's the equivalent of those "chips" you find on ebay.
     
  5. Dec 9, 2009 at 6:11 PM
    #5
    98tacoma27

    98tacoma27 :POOPCORN: Thor

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Member:
    #11714
    Messages:
    48,249
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ben
    Beech Creek
    Vehicle:
    05 Tundra SR5, 88 SR5 PU, 98 TRD OR (CRUSHED)
    5100's all on fours
    Are you thinking of doing the balance shaft delete mod?
     
  6. Dec 9, 2009 at 6:21 PM
    #6
    sachou

    sachou [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Member:
    #23554
    Messages:
    644
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Sam
    Richland, Washington
    Vehicle:
    2006 TRD Sport Acc Cab 4x4 V6 6spd
    Well...if it yields a noticeable amount of power and increased mpgs, without making the ride quality horrible, then yeah...but the point of the thread is to see if anyone on TW has done it before, or if I'm going to be a pioneer.
     
  7. Dec 9, 2009 at 6:25 PM
    #7
    98tacoma27

    98tacoma27 :POOPCORN: Thor

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Member:
    #11714
    Messages:
    48,249
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ben
    Beech Creek
    Vehicle:
    05 Tundra SR5, 88 SR5 PU, 98 TRD OR (CRUSHED)
    5100's all on fours
    I think you are going to be a pioneer. Interesting it says it is used primarily in race applications.
     
  8. Dec 9, 2009 at 6:53 PM
    #8
    wolfgang123

    wolfgang123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Member:
    #19369
    Messages:
    1,360
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Skyler
    Statesboro, GA
    Vehicle:
    1997 TACOMA - 4x4
    if we get more info i will pioneer with you!!
     
  9. Dec 9, 2009 at 7:05 PM
    #9
    sachou

    sachou [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Member:
    #23554
    Messages:
    644
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Sam
    Richland, Washington
    Vehicle:
    2006 TRD Sport Acc Cab 4x4 V6 6spd
    :woot: I have a follower!

    ...or something to that effect...

    Just looked at my Haynes manual. Looks like there's 2 balance shafts, and seems like a pretty complicated install (or uninstall, i should call it), as you have to rip out your timing crap to get to it.

    Seems like I could give it a shot, and it wouldn't be a big deal to put it back in if it totally sucks.
     
  10. Dec 9, 2009 at 7:22 PM
    #10
    sachou

    sachou [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Member:
    #23554
    Messages:
    644
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Sam
    Richland, Washington
    Vehicle:
    2006 TRD Sport Acc Cab 4x4 V6 6spd
    re-reading the wikipedia entry, it seems that our 2.7 liters are huge for four bangers...not a shock, but it says that the problem increases with bigger engine sizes, and 2 liters are the "unofficial" limit for 4 cyls. Being .7 liters way over that, maybe it's not such a good idea...

    It also states that you could gain 15 hp!:eek:

    Probably not completely true, but at even a third of that claimed gain $100 for 5hp is still a damn good deal.

    This guy did it in his 2.5 liter minivan...on a side note: a 12 second minivan, holy shit!

    Also seems that oil pressure will increase according to this mitsubishi modification website
     
  11. Dec 9, 2009 at 7:34 PM
    #11
    wolfgang123

    wolfgang123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Member:
    #19369
    Messages:
    1,360
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Skyler
    Statesboro, GA
    Vehicle:
    1997 TACOMA - 4x4
    that sounds like a lot of workut i am still game.
     
  12. Dec 9, 2009 at 7:43 PM
    #12
    wolfgang123

    wolfgang123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Member:
    #19369
    Messages:
    1,360
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Skyler
    Statesboro, GA
    Vehicle:
    1997 TACOMA - 4x4
    after read over those links its seems that if we can figure out how to install it (the kit) AND keep the oil pressure down you and me (maybe) will make some gains out of this.

    edit: looks to be a little to hard to complete for me. but send the LCE company an email and ask about the install.
     
  13. Dec 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM
    #13
    sachou

    sachou [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Member:
    #23554
    Messages:
    644
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Sam
    Richland, Washington
    Vehicle:
    2006 TRD Sport Acc Cab 4x4 V6 6spd
    According to various forums, and my Hayne's manual lack of coverage, and rockauto's lack of coverage, it looks like the 2RZ engine does NOT have balance shafts, and Toyota only decided to throw them in the 4 cylinder once it got to 2.7l.

    So, if you've driven a 2wd 4banger taco, I'd assume that it would be a smooth ride, and not jostling due to lack of balance shafts. Since the 3RZ is only .3 liters bigger, I don't see how too much of a difference will be noticed by removing them.

    I know the 3rz is basically a 2rz with a longer stroke...anybody think that this affects vibrations to the point of absolute balance shaft necessity?

    Things are looking pretty promising for us, wolfgang123...
     
  14. Dec 10, 2009 at 4:09 PM
    #14
    98tacoma27

    98tacoma27 :POOPCORN: Thor

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Member:
    #11714
    Messages:
    48,249
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ben
    Beech Creek
    Vehicle:
    05 Tundra SR5, 88 SR5 PU, 98 TRD OR (CRUSHED)
    5100's all on fours
    I just checked the 96 FSM and indeed confirms the balance shafts are in the 3rz and not the 2rz.
     
  15. Dec 11, 2009 at 12:25 AM
    #15
    Kelson

    Kelson My Truck is Cuter than Yours

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Member:
    #6597
    Messages:
    4,630
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Kelson
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    Vehicle:
    08 5-Lug Reg. Cab SR5
    SR5 Exterior/Interior (Color matched Front Bumper, Chrome Grille Surround and Chrome Rear Bumper/Silver Scoshe Dash Kit, A/C Bezel, A/C Vent Surround) LED license plate and white interior lights, Wet Okole Seat Covers, iPad in-Dash, JL CL-RLC, JL 13TW5 sub, JL 500/1 Slash V1 amp, JL XR 6.5 Components, Rockford Fosgate 6X9s in Boxes Front XRunner Coils, DJM Control Arms and Rear 4X4 Leafs, Custom 2" Angled Streetacos.com Blocks Front XR Bilstien Struts and Rear XR Bilstien Shocks, CravenSpeen Antennae, RX-8 Rims w/ Fronts:235/40-R18 Sumitomo HTR Rears:245/40-R18 Goodyear Eagle GT, 35% Tint front windows, OEM Sliding Privacy Glass w/ 5% Ceramic Tint, Flowmaster Super 44 dumped before the axle, URD Short Throw Shifter, Door Sill Protectors, Door Edge Guards, OEM Sport Pedals,The Retrofit Source Morimoto Mini D2S Stage III 35W 5K HID Headlights, OEM Fog Lights w/ piss yellow bulbs, OEM Cruise Control, Porsche 944 Bucket Seats, BeefedTaco Skid Plate, Whale
    lol 2.7 huge? nahhh

    the Detroit Diseel 40 series is an 8.4L 4 banger....
     
  16. Dec 11, 2009 at 5:44 AM
    #16
    wolfgang123

    wolfgang123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Member:
    #19369
    Messages:
    1,360
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Skyler
    Statesboro, GA
    Vehicle:
    1997 TACOMA - 4x4
    thats a diseel......2.7 is big for a gas engine
     
  17. Dec 11, 2009 at 10:57 AM
    #17
    sachou

    sachou [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Member:
    #23554
    Messages:
    644
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Sam
    Richland, Washington
    Vehicle:
    2006 TRD Sport Acc Cab 4x4 V6 6spd
    :eek: those cylinders must be as big as my face!

    Biggest gas 4 cylinder is a 3.2 in a 1961 Pontiac Tempest, which was basically a V8 389 literally cut in half. Because it used to be a V8, there were no balance shafts, so to compensate they made giant soft rubber motor mounts, and made a curved driveshaft, they also strengthened the timing chain so it wouldn't break. (according to both wikipedia and howstuffworks).

    Apparently that made for a damn smooth ride.

    Anyways...I'm okay with extra vibration...but if it could snap my timing chain...I'm not sure on that one.

    EDIT: Looked up LC Engineering Built-up PRO-RACE engines, they all have balance shafts removed, but the STREET engines still retain balance shafts. I'm all for LCE performance, and I love how they differentiate street applications and race applications...and if they deem balance shaft deletes too much for a DD, then maybe it is. Also, looked at heavy duty timing chains, and it's $550 for the whole kit, and $130 for just the chain.

    I dunno....
     
  18. Dec 11, 2009 at 11:08 AM
    #18
    SC4333

    SC4333 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Member:
    #11412
    Messages:
    2,194
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Grant
    San Antonio, TX
    Vehicle:
    '08 PreRunner SR5
    SOLD!
    You could remove the balancing shafts and gain a fair amount of power due to less rotational mass and parasitic drag, but the problem lies in the name its self. These shafts are there to balance the engine. A inline 4 cylinder engine is inherently a very imbalanced engine as it is, especially when you start getting up in size. When you remove these shafts the rotational mass of the crankshaft, rod and piston assemblies will be that much more unstable. If this is your daily driver, I wouldn't recommend it. 4 cylinder race engines do not use balancing shafts, but rather have the rotating assembly balance via Mallory (an extremely heavy metal) with holes drilled into the crank and different amounts on Mallory inserted to balance the assembly as much as possible.

    Just some food for thought.
     
  19. Dec 13, 2009 at 1:12 PM
    #19
    xsvtoyz

    xsvtoyz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Member:
    #9099
    Messages:
    182
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    AL
    Oklahoma
    Vehicle:
    03 Pre-Runner Inprogress
    HID (ACA)/ Web cams/ Header/Full Custom exhaust/ K&N FIPK II/SuperCharger
    yes the 2.7 has balance shafts and the 2.4 does not. I put cams in mine and the engine shakes pretty hard when its hot. I can't imagine it being much worse with no balance shafts. With the super charger this puts alot of shake in the truck. But you got to pay to play.
     
  20. Apr 21, 2010 at 3:09 PM
    #20
    tacolibre

    tacolibre Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Member:
    #35723
    Messages:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chad
    Richland, WA
    Vehicle:
    96 4x4 3rz 5spd
    header, flowmaster super 44, holes in airbox
    actually Ferrari made a 3.6 liter four cylinder back in the 60's as well... also at the same time they had a 3.6 liter 12 cylinder
     
To Top