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3rz engine swap and coolant path diagram?

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by Devonoco, Nov 16, 2014.

  1. Nov 16, 2014 at 3:13 PM
    #1
    Devonoco

    Devonoco [OP] Member

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    Hey all,

    I just finished up an engine swap on my 2000 Tacoma, 2.7L, 3rzfe. My old motor threw a counterbalance bearing and chewed up the block. I purchased a used engine from a local salvage yard, and replaced the timing chain, water pump, clutch, flywheel, and head gasket. I also had the head machined while I was in there. Anywho, I wasn't too terribly confident about some of the hosework on the install, particularly the coolant hoses. I was particularly uncertain about the coolant bypass hoses and heater hoses. At first, everything seemed good upon the initial startup, but I immediately noticed some smoke coming from the engine after a few seconds and shut it off. I then drained some of the oil, and sure enough, there was a fair amount of coolant in it. I have both an FSM and a Haynes manual, but cant seem to find a good diagram of the coolant hose routing. I'm pretty certain the engine isn't shot, as the compression was good when they tested it at the salvage yard, and it was only running for about ten seconds on the initial startup. Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks!
     
  2. Nov 16, 2014 at 5:54 PM
    #2
    keakar

    keakar Well-Known Member

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    I think its your heads, you should have left them alone.

    the coolant hoses don't matter, nothing in the water system gets anywhere near the oil system unless the head or block is cracked or the head gasket is bad. are you 100% sure you had the correct head gasket? did you match it both to the block passages AND the head passages before you installed it?

    once again, if you had a good engine with good compression install it as-is, like the old saying is true "if it aint broke don't fix it or you will break it"

    large radiator hose on top goes to top of engine, large radiator hose on bottom goes to water pump (I think) small radiator hoses go to heater core and that's it. you have two big hoses and two small hoses so unless you hooked the water hose to the pcv valve or the egr valve the head is where I would look for a problem. is this "machined head" your old head or the one from the junk yard? if the gasket isn't the problem and you still have another head, then use it and don't mess with it, just clean it up and use it as is. maybe get the valves seats and seals done but that's all, no machining of anything.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  3. Nov 16, 2014 at 6:31 PM
    #3
    Devonoco

    Devonoco [OP] Member

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    The head was on the engine I took from the parts yard, just machined the bottom of it to take any warpage out and got a valve job. Now that you mention it though, I don't remember matching the new gasket to the head, only the block. But it looked good on the block. Would that matter? Why would there be passages that dont go through both?
     
  4. Nov 16, 2014 at 7:26 PM
    #4
    Devonoco

    Devonoco [OP] Member

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    I guess the question would be are there multiple head gaskets for the 3rz?
     
  5. Nov 16, 2014 at 7:43 PM
    #5
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 Wheel Bearing Master

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    No, there is only one head gasket type for the 3RZ FE. If you have coolant in your oil after just 10 minutes, SOMETHING wasn't done right on the assembly, and would have nothing to do with hose routing.
     
  6. Nov 16, 2014 at 7:56 PM
    #6
    keakar

    keakar Well-Known Member

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    hard to say but they might have dropped the head and cracked it when they were machining it.

    NEVER machine a head unless it already has warping issues, all it does is risk the kind of problems you have now.

    did you torque the head correctly in the right pattern and order?

    I suppose you may have simply just got a bad head gasket
     
  7. Nov 16, 2014 at 9:24 PM
    #7
    knuckleduster271

    knuckleduster271 Well-Known Member

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    I always refresh a junkyard engine with new gaskets and seals. Never had an issue and ive replaced probably 50 headgaskets in my time.
    Always use an oem headgasket... Always. Same goes for front and rear main seals.
    Ive never had a problem and the op shouldnt have either especially if he had the head checked and resurfaced by a reputable machine shop.
    Honestly if you were intelligent enough to figure out the timing setup and balance shaft chains on this engine that was the hardest part.
    One other thing comes to mind- after you had a valve job done did they reshim the whole assembly? The most common cause that i have seen for a 3rz head to crack is because valve adjustments were never done and one tightened up causing a crack near a valve on the casting.
    It is possible to get the cooling hoses mixed up, theres one for the egr system and one on the throttle body that could be installed in the wrong places sending coolant into the combustion chamber. Check these, if you need i can post pics of my 98 3rz if it would help you.
    Did you replace the head bolts? They are torque to yeild and stretch making them only good for one time use.
    Did you properly clean the block mating surface?
    A simple leakdown test will tell you what you need to know.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  8. Nov 16, 2014 at 10:28 PM
    #8
    Devonoco

    Devonoco [OP] Member

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    Not sure if the machine shop reshimmed the assembly, but the head looked pretty darn good when I picked it up from the shop, and the place seems reputable. I did indeed replace the head bolts. I also cleaned the mating surfaces with acetone and made sure to scrape off any residue from the previous gasket. That block was clean as a whistle. I ordered an entire gasket set and replaced pretty much every gasket that I was going to run across. I ran out of time to work on it today, but will double check the egr and throttle body hoses tomorrow. I'm getting a better idea of how things should look, but any pics you have would be helpful. I should have taken some pictures of the old engine before I ripped it out, but I haven't ever done a job of this magnitude before. Live and learn. Should I flush the oil and coolant system and replace it with new fluids before performing any tests or running the vehicle any longer? Obviously I'll check for proper hose installation first, but I don't feel comfortable running the engine when its pumping out so much smoke. I'd rather try making sure everything's plugged in correct, replacing fluids, then starting her up before I go ripping into the block again.
     
  9. Nov 16, 2014 at 10:44 PM
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    Devonoco

    Devonoco [OP] Member

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  10. Nov 16, 2014 at 11:18 PM
    #10
    knuckleduster271

    knuckleduster271 Well-Known Member

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    Evergreen gaskets are hit or miss. I usually buy there kits on ebay by a seller called mizumo auto parts for the small stuff since they are super cheap, but shyd away from their head gaskets becuase of quite a few negative reiews. it wouldn't surprise me if you got a bad one is all I'm saying.
    if you're just running it for a matter of seconds it should be alright until you get the issue figured out, unless its a huge amount in there it will be fine. I wouldn't test drive it on the oil with coolant in it though... thing is if you change it right now and you don't have your issue fixed you just going to contaminate more oil.
    once you get the issue figured out absolutely change the oil, if the antifreeze is clean and not discolored its probably ok.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  11. Nov 17, 2014 at 7:20 AM
    #11
    keakar

    keakar Well-Known Member

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    absolutely yes, I wouldn't even leave it sit overnight like that because your crank is sitting in water right now and is rusting.

    disconnect the coolant lines so you don't pump any more water in it and change oil then run the engine for a minute just enough to recoat everything and flush out and remaining water then drain and refill the oil again, this should make sure all that is bare steel is oil coated again and not rusting. your coolant is probably fine and just needs more added but

    look on youtube, there are a bunch of Tacoma videos for stuff and im sure some will show you enough of the engine to see if your hoses are wrong.
     
  12. Nov 17, 2014 at 3:49 PM
    #12
    knuckleduster271

    knuckleduster271 Well-Known Member

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  13. Nov 17, 2014 at 9:49 PM
    #13
    Devonoco

    Devonoco [OP] Member

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    So, upon further inspection, the oil does not have coolant in it. I think it was just a bit gray from some of the residual chemicals that have been in there (pb blaster, wd-40, etc, and a fair amount of grease that came with the cams from the machine shop. I hooked up the egr and other hoses as best I could and as far as I can tell, everything is in the right place. The truck started up fine, and seemed to idle fairly well, but not as well as I would hope for a nearly completely rebuilt engine. I also pinpointed the source of the smoke. It was coming from the exhaust pipe collar that attaches to the transmission. After idling for about five minutes, it disappeared. I let it idle for about 20 minutes, during which the check engine light came on. It seemed to be running ok though, so I changed the oil and started it back up. I tried driving it around the block, and there seems to be a significant lack of power, almost as if it's missing. I think the next step is a leak down and compression test. I don't think that the head gasket is bad, but maybe?

    ps- Thanks for the pictures! They are pretty helpful
     
  14. Nov 17, 2014 at 9:53 PM
    #14
    Devonoco

    Devonoco [OP] Member

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    ps- The initial smoke from the exhaust pipe collar I mentioned was because I had earlier soaked a rusted nut with pb blaster. Whatever residue was on there quickly burned off.
     
  15. Nov 17, 2014 at 9:59 PM
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    Speedytech7

    Speedytech7 Toyota Cult Ombudsman

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    I've done a mod or two
    If you need any pictures of how a 3RZ should look I may be able to help as well.
     
  16. Nov 18, 2014 at 3:45 AM
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    knuckleduster271

    knuckleduster271 Well-Known Member

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    What code is it throwing?
    My guess is that its going to be timing related, probably a single tooth off on one of the cams. Id figure out what that code is first.
    It s not at all uncommon for an engine to smoke on initial start up.
     
  17. Nov 18, 2014 at 8:56 PM
    #17
    Devonoco

    Devonoco [OP] Member

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    So its throwing codes P0325 (Engine Knock Sensor) and P0304 (Engine Misfire Cylinder 4). I replaced the coil pack for plugs 1 and 4 with the pack from my old engine, and it's still sluggish under load, CE light is still on, same codes are still thrown. I've got spark in all cylinders. Next step compression?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  18. Nov 18, 2014 at 9:34 PM
    #18
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 Wheel Bearing Master

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    I use Mizumo's gaskets all the time at my shop. Never had a single head gasket, or any other of their gaskets or parts for that matter, have any problems at all. Been using them for years.

    Check under the intake manifold and be sure you connected up the knock sensor. It is screwed into the side of the engine block, under the intake manifold.
     
  19. Nov 18, 2014 at 10:50 PM
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    Devonoco

    Devonoco [OP] Member

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    Huzzah!! I went out to check the knock sensor connection, and sure enough it was not connected. While looking around for the connector, I noticed the #4 cylinder fuel injector look slightly askew. When I touched it, it pulled right out. Upon discovering this, I reconnected it and started the engine. Immediately, I noticed the difference. Engine obviously now has more power and runs smoother. I still can't find the connecting wire for the knock sensor though. Does it run off the main wiring harness that the injector wires come from? Or is it off the wiring that runs down to the O2 sensors? Also, while driving it around the block, I noticed a lack of power around 2000 rpms in third and fourth gear and a high idle after revving down from high rpms. Is this because of the knock sensor being disconnected? I'm going to tackle this tomorrow, as its late and the old lady is tired of me working on trucks.
     
  20. Nov 19, 2014 at 6:59 AM
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    knuckleduster271

    knuckleduster271 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...3PYwWzRNEM-lByTOA&sig2=eS_ZeSupU3hzUG4z0XwDaQ


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...O7TVbHOKFEqet44ug&sig2=8QRgHY_qGBKRypKbn8iCJw




    http://www.subaruforester.org/vbull...sket-set-82842/#/forumsite/20556/topics/82842


    Ive never personally used their headgasketsbut after reading reviews like these I dont plan to. Ive bought dozens of their kits and in fact i have one of their 3rz kits out it in the shop missing almost everthing except the headgasket.
    I have used dozens of their timing belt kits and have nothing bad to say about them. Most h2o pumps come from aisien or gmb and the bearings are usually skf or koyo.
    Im actually getting ready to order one for my tundra here soon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014

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